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The Standard Deviant

Zubrsinthe

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I picked up some Bak's and I'm giving it a whirl right now. It smells just like a smoldering smudge stick. How's that for alliteration?

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Geez, I did search, but missed it somehow. I likely mis-spelled it in the search! Sorry, please feel free to delete this thread to avoid confusion, and sorry for the fuss!

Edited by Scott M.

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Onacuz, the government got its head out its ass on this subject. Onacuz, Pernod and TAB&DNM beat up, shamed, and educated the the nincompoops working in Paris 1.

 

I just wish the FDA would allow folks to use it here.

Edited by Miguel

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It's not prohibited by name, like tonka beans, it's just that it's also not on the GRAS list or listed in CFR 21 172.510. All someone would have to do is adequately demonstrate to the TTB that it's been commonly used in foodstuffs. I had to do this with a few obscure ingredients, and it took some haggling, but in the end I got my formulas approved.

 

So it really is something American Bison would like to eat? Cool. Kudos to Bogumil for thinking of that one.

Bogumil didn't think of it. Bison grass isn't an American name and isn't named for the American bison (although I don't doubt they'd eat it), it's named for the European bison. In America it's usually just called sweet grass.

 

I know I sound like some terrible thujonist type person, but I'm slightly suspicious of FDA-permitted bison grass vodka, the particular taste can only really come from coumarin as far as I'm aware! Maybe they are just under the radar of the FDA!

Highly unlikely. First, the FDA doesn't get involved at this level; they just make the rules, it's up to the TTB to enforce them when it comes to alcohol.

 

In order to get a product approved for production or importation, they had to submit a complete formula and process statement, along with a 750ml sample for lab analysis.

 

But you're correct about the aroma coming from coumarin. Coumarin itself is prohibited from being added directly to food, and several high-coumarin ingredients such as tonka beans are prohibited, but other coumarin containing ingredients are permitted, some "in alcoholic beverages only". Sweet woodruff (used in Maiwein, which is why I have a bunch of it in my yard), tarragon, sweet clover, red clover, cassia cinnamon, and horse chestnuts, all contain coumarin. Ingredients like these are used to flavor the "bison grass" vodkas sold in the US.

 

The wacky thing is that the coumarin from herbal ingredients isn't even toxic, it's the fermentation by-product, dicoumarol, that's the problem. If the plants are just macerated or macerated and distilled, the dicoumarol doesn't form.

 

Unfortunately, coumarin's effects were studied by giving it to rats and mice, to whom it's incredibly toxic, but in the human GI tract, naturally-occuring coumarin is metabolized into harmless compounds.

 

The science has all been done. Someone with time and money could force the FDA to reverse its position on coumarin.

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All someone would have to do is adequately demonstrate to the TTB that it's been commonly used in foodstuffs. I had to do this with a few obscure ingredients, and it took some haggling, but in the end I got my formulas approved.

Aside from the amazing wealth of information, stuff like this is why you are incredibly awesome!

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You guys are too kind. I've just learned waaaay more than I ever wanted to about the convolutions of food law and formulation and labeling regulation. I also learned that the average well-informed absinthe distiller in the US knows more about what's legal and where to find the statutes than the average formulation specialist and lab techs at the TTB. I've had ingredients rejected that were right there on those lists I linked above.

 

Now if I can just get the FDA to see reason on calamus, I'll be all set. ;)

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.......although i've been a member a short time, and i don't know them personally, but from their comments, etc. ...... one can readily see that Gwydion Stone and Joe Legate are two upstanding individuals......

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Zubrsinthe has really caught my interest as of late, (maybe due to absinthes.com stocking it) and I plan on ordering a bottle with my next order. Should be interesting, I always like trying unique products.

 

:cheers:

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As fraternal organizations go,TKE is also unique.

 

And, to me, just about as appealing as St. George.

Edited by Absomphe

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I just reviewed it here http://wormwoodsociety.org/index.php/component/content/article/20-absinthe-brand-reviews/traditional-absinthe/734-zubrsinthe

 

My review is rather concise, because I could not find a way to clearly convey the specific taste and aroma of bison grass in this formulation. I consider it a very interesting absinthe, something I feel like drinking again and again, and not just an interesting experiment.

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