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Looks like the atmosphere in serious cocktail bars is spreading and rules of decorum are actually being enforced, according to the LA Times. I can already see the sour grapes from people who don't like to be told to behave. IMHO, they can have their sports bars (of which I've never been fond)...though as Seinfeld's said time and again: "...not that there's anything wrong with that."

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That was a pretty funny article.

 

Ol' Bill got punked. That's annoying; however, he DOES have his run of any other "bar" in NYC. I like Bill though, but not enough to break the rules for him.

 

You've got to hand it to those ruthlessly efficient Asians. I've got a Korean barber named Kim who has cut my hair every week for the last two years. Price? $8.17. Tip? Whatever's left from a $20. Why? Because he's ruthlessly efficient. Period.

 

Very interesting. I see absinthe bars like this opening up soon and it feels good.

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Must say I find these rules to be quite a good idea, for a change. The loud, noisy atmosphere, and too many punks with absolutely no manners is what most often keeps me from going to the typical 'sport bar'.

 

(I guess the one rule I'd have issues with here would be the "Gentlemen will not introduce themselves to ladies" part...) :shifty:

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Good point. I know if I saw a certain absinthe-drinking Swede in a bar and was forbidden by the house rules to try and hustle chat her up, I'd feel my rights were being unduly infringed upon.

 

There's a certain romantic appeal to the whole notion. Old fashioned gentility and freedom from louts. Probably the only way we get to enjoy that is by the rules. Which is the part I don't like. Rules. Well, I'm not that big on the whole romantic genre, as an aesthetic, either. Interesting trend. Thanks for sharing the article.

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I'm with you on that, PB, and I think things like 'rules' would certainly frighten a lot of people from going there, thinking it's just a snobbish place, not being able to feel or appreciate what we'd call the "romantic appeal".

Maybe that's because most people today aren't romantic by nature, in this old-fashioned way I mean. Therefor we need rules to evoke such manners that after all may slumber deeply in some people.

 

Or I'm just babbling.

 

Going to louche up an absinthe now, I think.

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I have a problem with that, too. Contrary to popular wisdom, some of my best relationships started with meeting someone in a bar. The social aspect, and the hope of meeting someone new and interesting, is at the heart of the bar experience. Trying to regulate that is a bad idea.

 

Yes, you'd like to prevent slobbering drunks or amped-up frat boys from hitting on every woman in the place, and it's certainly better for women to feel comfortable and not on the defensive. And in general, I think a smooth approach between two people who are likely to be mutually interested can be so seamless as to escape the notice of a bouncer or busy bartender.

 

But I certainly don't want the house to feel it's their job, or right, to step in and tell me to get lost if I speak to someone outside the group I came in with.

 

Then too, there's the double-standard. At least twice in my life, a real relationship was started by a girl or woman approaching me in a bar. I liked that. But the idea of a rule that says they can approach whomever they like, but I can't, would make me feel duty-bound to tell a nice girl to føck off, just out of spite.

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Well, Wild Bill, I think you're missing the point of the rule. I mean you name it (to keep slobbering drunks or amped-up frat boys from hitting on every woman in the place) but I don't think you get that it's as simple as that. I'd highly doubt that the staff will be regulating a person talking to another person but if it's obviously unwanted I think that's where they'd step in.

 

What's more, you know what the reply will be? "If you don't like the rules, go somewhere else." I'm sure their business won't suffer from the folks who don't like the rules and that's what they're banking on.

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I'm skeptical. All this "rules so the majority can have a quality experience" sounds far-fetched to me. It sounds like censorship and violation of free speech. I think assholes should have the right to do and say anything they want, anywhere they want, no matter who it offends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;)

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(I guess the one rule I'd have issues with here would be the "Gentlemen will not introduce themselves to ladies" part...) :shifty:

 

If Mia wasn't around, I doubt you'd have any problem with the ladies introducing themselves to you. :wave2:

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What's more, you know what the reply will be? "If you don't like the rules, go somewhere else." I'm sure their business won't suffer from the folks who don't like the rules and that's what they're banking on.

The reply to what, my discussing it here? Yes, I'm aware of how house rules work, you either obey them or you're free to leave. Thanks for catching me up on that.

 

My feeling is that the other rules discussed, ie: dress codes, no standing around, no large groups, no drunks, no shouting, etc., will have the desired effect, changing the timbre of the room and creating a more sophisticated atmosphere without going the extra mile and telling the men that they can't talk to the women. The rule quoted:" Gentlemen shall not introduce themselves to the ladies", isn't aimed at wild animals, it's aimed at gentlemen. And I'll bet it means exactly what it says. And once you've made it a rule, it's a rule, part of the club and it's culture.

 

Real speakeasys didn't need this rule, and our forebears did fine.

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I'm skeptical. All this "rules so the majority can have a quality experience" sounds far-fetched to me. It sounds like censorship and violation of free speech. I think assholes should have the right to do and say anything they want, anywhere they want, no matter who it offends.

 

 

What about self imposed

 

 

 

 

 

Mango.

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'I don't disagree with the no vodka rule. However many of these rules are called "common sense" or "What yo momma taught you". If you don't like screaming frat boys stay out of the sportsbar. I personally turn tail when I see any mention of "wings", "booty shakin' contests", or "smooth jazz". Even when I was living in Green Bay (One of the most Sports Barriest cities this side of the pacos) I was able to find a quiet bar that made a good martini. As a general rule I will not enter a bar with a posted dress code, a bars ambiance and selection should draw the proper clientèle, don't judge me because I chose to wear my kikwear jeans today.

 

Oh well, I wouldn't go into one of these places anydangway. $19.25 for cocktail? Maybe if there is a bottle of Jameson attached.

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Pecos.

 

 

 

 

I think the tone of these places is to enjoy something different. To enjoy the cocktail. Bring your own ladies.

 

 

 

You can always go to your sports bar, get your lady, and show her how sophisticated you are by saying, "Let's go out for some serious cocktails."

 

 

 

 

You know, that really could be so misinterpreted. :blush:

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The "Rules" model that has been bouncing around New York for several years now has its pros and cons, probably the most unfortunate aspect of most of these is that many of the bars in question have some level of needing to call ahead for reservations.

 

At Milk & Honey you need to call an unlisted number in order to get reservations. And if you don't have reservations, then you can't get in... not that you'd know how to get in anyway, since the entrance is hidden.

 

At PDT, they recommend you call for reservations, mostly because they are very small, and once they get "full" they won't let others in (I like that). However if you don't have reservations you can still get in when room allows, but again you have to know how to get in. Go to a little phone booth in the side of a hot-dog restaurant, lift the phone and buzz in.

 

The list of the M&H Rules are here: http://www.mlkhny.com/houserules/index.html

 

There is somewhat of a valid reason behind the M&H rules... Sasha's landlord stipulated that he won't abide noisey crowds gathering on the street, so Sasha had to set up some general rules which would promote a little crowd control. Sasha being Sasha, his tendency was to head down the path of more victorian sensibilities.

 

Note that of the 8 M&H Rules, half of them are specifically focused on promoting behavior which will satisfy the requirements of the landlord.

 

And then there is just the whole NY crowd mentality sort of thing. If "I" wanted to open up a bar there during the last 5+ years, I would go crazy if I couldn't set some ground rules in order to allow me to provide the service, atmosphere, and more importantly, the cocktails, that I wanted my bar to embody.

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Petraske was a delight to meet, and really made me wish that Minneapolis (or frankly, ANY place out here in the midwest) had a place close to the level of Milk and Honey.

 

I will say that there is ONE place in town that is trying/starting to get to that level though. On top of the Chambers Hotel, there is 'Red, White and Fucking Blue', which is decidedly trying to become a bit more 'coastal' in its approach to decorum and quality.

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