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What ya drinking tonight?


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#38101 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:17 AM

The only vermouth I've ever had that doesn't ruin a Martini is fresh vermouth.
blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell

#38102 MASTERPC

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:48 AM

The only vermouth Ive ever had that doesnt ruin my martinis is no vermouth, of any kind. I am curious though so may have to look for the one.

Edited by MASTERPC, 11 August 2018 - 08:04 AM.

"I read an article recently on the dangers of heavy drinking..
Scared the shit out of me.
So, that's it! After today, no more reading."

#38103 Absomphe

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 02:27 PM

Martinis are ruined by their very existence.


Yes, I'm Krinkles the Clown on an absinthe a beer bender.

You got a problem with that?


#38104 MisterX

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 04:14 PM

try dolin.

 

i think the stuff lasts longer than some people claim. i've seen articles and semi-scientific blind tests where people couldn't really tell much difference even after a few weeks. not going to look them up again but they're out there, and match my own experience. especially when i'm using so little in a drink (i actually use more/a little closer to the recipes with dolin though, and it's still good)..



#38105 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:08 PM

I know Dolin very well, and most of the other dry vermouths readily available in the US. Of those, the one that, in my experience, has the best staying power is Boissiere, and that is probably due to the fact that it is about 1% higher in alcohol than most other brands.

A Martini, by traditional definition, contains vermouth. I know there are people who prefer chilled gin with very little or no vermouth, but just because they choose to call that a Martini, it doesn't make it any more a Martini than if I choose to call a duck a platypus.

I read literally shit-tons on this subject, and I've never seen one legitimate article that has convinced me that reasonably perceptive people can't tell the difference between fresh vermouth and that which is opened for a "few weeks".

Vermouth is wine. It begins to oxidize the minute it is opened. The only thing that gives it any more legs than standard still wine is the slightly higher abv (approx 16% vs an average 13 - 13.5%) and the higher sugar content. But like everything else in life, there are limits.
blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell

#38106 MASTERPC

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 08:05 PM

In Downtown Kashmir what that means.
"I read an article recently on the dangers of heavy drinking..
Scared the shit out of me.
So, that's it! After today, no more reading."

#38107 MASTERPC

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 08:08 PM

Watching Sharp Objects so, maybe Im a bit discriminating.
"I read an article recently on the dangers of heavy drinking..
Scared the shit out of me.
So, that's it! After today, no more reading."

#38108 MisterX

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:13 PM

well, i don't notice much of a difference up to at least 2 weeks. maybe my palate just isn't as nuanced as yours.


Edited by MisterX, 11 August 2018 - 09:15 PM.


#38109 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 03:45 AM

Most dry vermouths will hold pretty well up to two weeks if they are tightly capped and referigerated between uses. Two weeks is quite different from "a few weeks" or "(months old)". I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that people open a new bottle of vermouth every time they make a drink.
blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell

#38110 MisterX

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 05:34 PM

i didn't say i regularly drink months old vermouth. i just said that i just drank the last bit i had left over from a couple of months ago. i had it so i used it. it wasn't so bad. and i honestly think you're  overstating the rate at which vermouth spoils, and i'm seriously doubting your ability to detect such a big difference probably up to at least a month, as long as it's properly refrigerated. Noilly Prat apparently claim theirs can last up to 3 months. they actually make the stuff. obviously some kind of deterioration will begin before that point but at what point is it going to be really noticeable, or in your words *ruin* a martini? my dolin was in the fridge probably pushing 3 months and i used a fair amount of it, and the drink tasted fine. so maybe my tastebuds are broken? or just not refined enough? has to be one of those two, i guess.


Edited by MisterX, 12 August 2018 - 05:53 PM.


#38111 absinthiac

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 06:18 PM

Noilly Prat in the fridge, I dont drink martinis out, only home made, always disappointed with restaurant martinis, sometime give one made with vodka and another time, calamari olives were tossed in the bottom of the glass, not even on a tooth pick! Going out with friends, they say, no martinis, I say, they dont have Absinthe, give me a Sam Adams! 



#38112 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 08:12 PM

i didn't say i regularly drink months old vermouth.

and i honestly think you're  overstating the rate at which vermouth spoils, and i'm seriously doubting your ability to detect such a big difference probably up to at least a month, as long as it's properly refrigerated.

For crying out loud. I don't even know why I'm responding to this, but here goes:

First, I didn't say that you said that.

Second, you are entitled to your opinion on the subjects of vermouth spoilage rates, and my perceptive abilities, but I really can't imagine what you base the latter on. To my knowledge, we don't know each other.

Time and refrigeration aren't the only factors that contribute to the oxidation of vermouth. At least as important as time, is how many times the bottle has been opened, allowing a fresh infusion of oxygen into the environment, and how much air space is in the bottle. Let me give you two scenarios:

1. A bottle is opened once and 1/4 ounce is used, the bottle is capped and fridged and not used again for a long time. That bottle might very well be sound a couple months later since only a small volume of oxygen was ever introduced and a relatively large volume of liquid is being acted upon.

2. A bottle is opened every 2 or 3 days and 3/4 ounce is used each time. In 3 weeks that bottle will have been opened about 9 times, each time replentishing an ever greater volume of oxygen. If it's a 375ml bottle, slightly over half the vermouth will now be gone. In my experience, this is about the point at which oxidation rates dramatically increase. In another week, my experience is that most dry vermouths will be showing critical oxidation.


... or in your words *ruin* a martini?

Actually, that was originally your word. I simply aped it to add emphasis and continuity to my quip and contrary opinion.

my dolin was in the fridge probably pushing 3 months and i used a fair amount of it, and the drink tasted fine. so maybe my tastebuds are broken? or just not refined enough? has to be one of those two, i guess.

Or maybe something else, which is that perhaps you have become accustomed to tasting oxidized vermouth. I might suggest that the next time you are down to that level in a bottle with more than 3 or 4 weeks on it, buy a fresh bottle and do a side by side. I'll bet you'll be stunned at the difference.

It's been my opinion for a long time now that the reason so many people use far too little or no vermouth (or olive brine or whatever) in Martinis, is because they are getting highly oxidized vermouth either out at establishments, or from their own stash because they don't realize that it is perishable at some point. It's too bad because a well proportioned and well made Martini is one of the greats in the pantheon of American mixed drinks.
blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell


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