Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone and thanks for the warm welcome over in the Newbie section.

 

As I mentioned on that thread. I am a new Absinthe drinker that is somewhat limited by what Absinthes I can and cannot drink as I am a religious Jew and adhere to strict Kosher laws.

 

The only thing that could make an Abnsithe not Kosher is its use of grapes, brandy, wine etc in its Alcohol base.

 

This is made somewhat easier in the US with ingredient labeling laws . However, most websites for the importation of Absinthes are not very helpful disclosing what base the alcohol is.

 

My goal here is to create a short list of Absinthe that:

 

A) Are certified Kosher and by whom

 

B) Could be Kosher (because they are distilled using grain, beet sugar, honey or adhere to the strict guidelines behind a kosher grape product). Is it all grain all the time. Do they also make a wine based absinthe. If so are the same distillery equipment used etc. Its important to note that for some Jews, this information is ok while others will not partake of the drink unless it has a Kosher certification or is listed on a Kosher supervised service website

 

C) For sure uses grape products.

 

I have reached out to a few distilleries, all of which have been very familiar with the issues involved.

 

What I have learned is that being brand specific is no longer good enough as some brands will have a variation of both or will make other type of spirits with grape bases. When that is the case deeper questions must be asked.

 

As learn more I will ad to directly to this post

 

BASED ON PAST THREADS & EMAILS AND MORE, HERE IS WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR:

 

WITH KOSHER CERTIFICATION

Lucid - OU - Parve

Doubs Premium Absinthe - London Beth Din - Parve

Pernod Absinthe - 40% - London Beth Din - Parve (I am the one that pointed out to them that the PERNOD ABSINTHE 68% Vol listed on p.113 of The Really Jewish Food Guide 2014 as approved Parev is now made with grape alcohol and is therefore NOT KOSHER.)

 

COULD BE KOSHER (Product Specific)

La Muse Verte
Pacfique
Vieux Carre
Kuebler
Tenneyson Absinthe Royal
Vilya
Meadow of Love
Walton Waters
Marteau Belle Époque (NOT the Master's Reserve, which IS made with grape spirits)
Versinthe (Liquoristerie de Provence)
Artémisia-Bugnon
La Clandestine
Absinthe Angélique Verte Suisse - 70 cl
Absinthe Butterfly
Matter Luginbühl (Tempus Fugit?)
Duplias Verte
Mansinthe
OriginalAbsinthes.com
Absinthe Original (I know I know)
Absinthe King Gold (Again, I know I know)

COULD BE KOSHER (BUT NEEDS TO BE PRODUCT SPECIFIC)

Un Emile (Emile Pernod)
F Guy
Lemercier
La Fee
NOT KOSHER
Any of the Jades :-(
St George
Pernod
PERNOD ABSINTHE 68%
Absinthe Pernod Rocette Traditionelle
Fguy
La Fée XS Francaise
Emile Pernot
Absinthe Vieux Pontarlier
Edited by obercreative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some American brands I know off the top are Grape base:

Leopold

La Sorciere Verte and Blance

Emperor Norton

Thanks!

 

 

 

WITH KOSHER CERTIFICATION

 

Pernod Absinthe - 40%

 

This is pastis, not absinthe.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. What do you know of the Emilie Pernots?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATED LIST



WITH KOSHER CERTIFICATION


Lucid - OU - Parve


Doubs Premium Absinthe - London Beth Din - Parve


Arack Mabrouka Absinthe - Rabbinate K.gt and DT Beit Yosef (Israel)


Pernod Absinthe - 40% (REALLY A PASTIS) - London Beth Din - Parve (I am the one that pointed out to them that the PERNOD ABSINTHE 68% Vol listed on p.113 of The Really Jewish Food Guide 2014 as approved Parev is now made with grape alcohol and is therefore NOT KOSHER.)



COULD BE KOSHER (Product Specific)


La Muse Verte

Pacfique

Vieux Carre

Kuebler

Tenneyson Absinthe Royal


Vilya

Meadow of Love

Walton Waters

Marteau Belle Époque (NOT the Master's Reserve, which IS made with grape spirits)

Versinthe (Liquoristerie de Provence)




Artémisia-Bugnon

La Clandestine

Absinthe Angélique Verte Suisse - 70 cl

Absinthe Butterfly



Matter Luginbühl (Tempus Fugit?)

Duplias Verte

Mansinthe


OriginalAbsinthes.com

Absinthe Original (I know I know)

Absinthe King Gold (Again, I know I know)



COULD BE KOSHER (BUT NEEDS TO BE PRODUCT SPECIFIC)



Un Emile (Emile Pernod)

F Guy


Lemercier

La Fee


NOT KOSHER

Any of the Jades :-(

St George

Leopold

La Sorciere Verte and Blance

Emperor Norton


Pernod

Pernod Absinthe 68%

Absinthe Pernod Rocette Traditionelle


Fguy

La Fée XS Francaise


Emile Pernot

Absinthe Vieux Pontarlier


Edited by obercreative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATED LIST



WITH KOSHER CERTIFICATION


Lucid - OU - Parve


Doubs Premium Absinthe - London Beth Din - Parve


Arack Mabrouka Absinthe - Rabbinate K.gt and DT Beit Yosef (Israel)



Pernod Absinthe - 40% (REALLY A PASTIS) - London Beth Din - Parve (I am the one that pointed out to them that the PERNOD ABSINTHE 68% Vol listed on p.113 of The Really Jewish Food Guide 2014 as approved Parev is now made with grape alcohol and is therefore NOT KOSHER.)



KOSHER BUT LOW QUALITY ABSINTHE


Trenet


Rodniks - Triangle K - Authorised by Rabanut Harashit of Israel


Rodniks Black - Authorised by Rabanut Harashit of Israel


Staroplzenecky KOSHER Absinth 64%


Absinth 35


Black Absinthe 80


Hapsburg Green


Dr.Rauchs 50 cl






COULD BE KOSHER (Product Specific)


La Muse Verte

Pacfique

Vieux Carre

Kuebler

Tenneyson Absinthe Royal


Vilya

Meadow of Love

Walton Waters

Marteau Belle Époque (NOT the Master's Reserve, which IS made with grape spirits)

Versinthe (Liquoristerie de Provence)




Artémisia-Bugnon

La Clandestine

Absinthe Angélique Verte Suisse - 70 cl

Absinthe Butterfly



Matter Luginbühl (Tempus Fugit?)

Duplias Verte

Mansinthe


OriginalAbsinthes.com

Absinthe Original (I know I know)

Absinthe King Gold (Again, I know I know)



COULD BE KOSHER (BUT NEEDS TO BE PRODUCT SPECIFIC)



Un Emile (Emile Pernod)

F Guy


Lemercier

La Fee


NOT KOSHER

Any of the Jades :-(

St George

Leopold

La Sorciere Verte and Blance

Emperor Norton


Pernod

Pernod Absinthe 68%

Absinthe Pernod Rocette Traditionelle


Fguy

La Fée XS Francaise


Emile Pernot

Absinthe Vieux Pontarlier



Edited by obercreative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a conservative Jew this thread confuses me. For the last seven years I've viewed grape-based and fruit-based absinthes as Kosher for Passover, sand official stamp. I've only ever visited one absinthe distillery, Vilya Spirits, and it's cleaner than my kitchen. The amount of care, and quality that they put into their herbs from germination to distillation to bottling boggles my mind, and I'm sure this is similar for every other quality American brand of Absinthe, and many other quality brands from other parts of the world.

 

I want it to be known that I'm not trying to debunk, belittle or troll obercreative's efforts...he has put a lot more thought and effort into this than I ever have, and I commend him for that. I'm only posting this to show that there are movements in Judaism that hold what is consumed to higher standards than other movements.

 

I doubt it would seriously be cost effective for many, if not all of the brands that have been labeled as "Non-kosher" to seek Kosher approval, the profit margin just isn't great enough for that level of investment. I would love to see more Kosher certified brands, and I would love to see if that would make a difference in sales.

 

The review section speaks for itself. My concern is that some of the truly excellent brands will be looked down upon, or not even tried (shudder) because they don't have Kosher certification, while some particularly questionable brands will be praised for having Kosher certification. I've never tried Rodnik's Black, but I'm 99% certain that Leopold Brothers Verte is closer to being proper absinthe than it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a conservative Jew this thread confuses me. For the last seven years I've viewed grape-based and fruit-based absinthes as Kosher for Passover, sand official stamp. I've only ever visited one absinthe distillery, Vilya Spirits, and it's cleaner than my kitchen. The amount of care, and quality that they put into their herbs from germination to distillation to bottling boggles my mind, and I'm sure this is similar for every other quality American brand of Absinthe, and many other quality brands from other parts of the world.

 

I want it to be known that I'm not trying to debunk, belittle or troll obercreative's efforts...he has put a lot more thought and effort into this than I ever have, and I commend him for that. I'm only posting this to show that there are movements in Judaism that hold what is consumed to higher standards than other movements.

 

I doubt it would seriously be cost effective for many, if not all of the brands that have been labeled as "Non-kosher" to seek Kosher approval, the profit margin just isn't great enough for that level of investment. I would love to see more Kosher certified brands, and I would love to see if that would make a difference in sales.

 

The review section speaks for itself. My concern is that some of the truly excellent brands will be looked down upon, or not even tried (shudder) because they don't have Kosher certification, while some particularly questionable brands will be praised for having Kosher certification. I've never tried Rodnik's Black, but I'm 99% certain that Leopold Brothers Verte is closer to being proper absinthe than it.

 

Hey Baubel!

 

And Gut Woch ! Where are you writing from?

 

Thanks for your post and for the opportunity of me to clarify.

 

By Kosher I am only referring to the strictest Orthodox Jewish interpretation and in no way mean to debase the brands listed as not kosher. People who keep kosher will be grateful to know that they cannot partake of those and the brands that are listed usually know that they are. Some have even looked into Kosher certification and even have affiliation with a brand that has Kosher certification (I am thinking of Jade and Lucid).

 

When it comes to grape based products and Kosher, wine, more than any other food or drink, represents the holiness and separateness of the Jewish people. It is used for the sanctification of Shabbat and Yom Tov and at Jewish simchot. In the Beit Hamikdash wine was poured upon the altar together with the sacrifice.

However, since wine was and still is used in many forms of idolatrous worship, it has a unique status in Jewish law, which places extra restrictions on the making and handling of wine. This includes wine used for non-ceremonial purposes.
The production and handling of kosher wine must be done exclusively by Jews. Wine, grape juice, and all products containing wine or grape juice must remain solely in Jewish hands during the manufacturing process and also after the seal of the bottle has been opened. We are not allowed to drink any wine or grape juice, or any drink containing wine or grape juice, which has been touched by a non-Jew after the seal of the bottle has been opened.
Like all things there is of course an exception and that is wine that is Yayin Mevushal or Boiled Wine
Kosher wine (or grape juice) which has been boiled prior to the bottling process is called yayin mevushal. In the time of the Temple, boiling wine rendered it unfit to be brought upon the Altar.
Yayin mevushal is not considered "sacramental wine" and is therefore not included in the prohibition against being handled by non-Jews. This wine must, as with all kosher wines, bear the symbol of a reliable supervision organization and it should say yayin mevushal.
A wide variety of domestic and imported kosher wines under reliable supervision has been added to the sweet Concords traditionally associated with kosher wines. Many of these wines are yayin mevushal, as indicated on the label.
Grape Ingredients In Processed Foods and Absinthes
All liquids produced from fresh or dried grapes, whether alcoholic or non-alcoholic, such as grape juice, and wine vinegar, are in the same category as wine in Jewish Law. Therefore, foods with grape flavoring or additives must always have a reliable hechsher (certification). Examples are jam, soda, popsicles, candy, juice packed fruit, fruit punch, and lemonade.
Alcoholic drinks such as cognac, brandy and Absinthes that have wine bases fall into the same category.This goes for liqueurs and blended whiskeys that are often blended with wine. All such beverages require kosher supervision, as does herring in wine sauce.
Even cream of tartar is made from wine sediment and needs rabbinical supervision.
I should note that even amongst orthodox circles there is a discrepancy. Even though a distillery might only ever use grain neutral spirits, there are many orthodox Jews who will not consume the product unless it has a certification or is on a approved list (see end of post).
Passover
Under normal circumstances you are correct that a grape-based Absinthe would be Kosher for Passover. But this would only be the case if A) The wine or grape was kosher and B) that the distillery does not also use grain-based products in their equipment or thoroughly cleaned the equipment in between batches. Also, if the distillery is owned by Jews.
I should note that grain-based distilleries owned by a Jew or Jews must shut down during the week of Passover, and/or sell all their grain to a non-Jew during the week of Passover, in order to continue producing a Kosher product as grain owned by a Jew during Passover becomes unfit (not kosher).
All of this is, as I am sure you are aware, based on the law of Chametz.
For those that don't know what I am talking about, Chametz is any food product made from wheat, barley, rye, oats, spelt, or their derivatives, which has leavened (risen). Our sages have determined that flour from any of these five grains that comes in contact with water or moisture will leaven, unless fully baked within eighteen minutes (matzah). As we are commanded by the Torah, if a food contains even a trace of chametz, we don’t eat it, we don’t derive benefit from it, and we make sure not to have any of it in our possession for all the days of Passover.
19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses; for whosoever shall eatnthat which is leavened, that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a sojourner, or one that is born in the land.
20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.' {P}
Hence the Matzah.
To be certain that a product is kosher for Passover, it must have rabbinical certification. Otherwise it is possible that it contains chametz ingredients, or traces of chametz if it was processed on the same equipment as chametz products. Thus, unless a product is certified Kosher for Passover, we consider it chametz, and make sure not to have it in our possession on Passover.
What foes this mean for Absinthe?

Any time grains (wheat, barley, spelt, rye or oat) ferment or come into contact with hot liquids, the result is chametz. Many types of alcohol are made of, or contain, fermented grain and are therefore chametz. Alcoholic beverages made of other substances are permitted. In fact there is kosher for Passover plum brandy and potato vodka. Before purchasing, Orthodox Jews ascertain that the beverage is certified as kosher for Passover. As far as I understand, Lucid Absinthe is not certified Kosher for Passover even though it uses Beet alcohol instead of grain.

Ashkenazic Jews, who traditionally refrain from eating legumes on Passover, avoid alcohol produced from legumes as well. In addition, there are some (including Chabad) who traditionally avoid all alcohol on Passover (with the exception of wine).

The whole purpose of my effort is because I saw the low-quality absinthes rise to the top on Kosher lists, so I might to make sure that the higher quality ones have an opportunity to get in front of this spirit loving demographic. Especially as Purim approaches ;-).

If you are interested in a list of approved alcoholic beverages you can find more information here.

http://www.kashrut.com/articles/liquor2/

Edited by obercreative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So um....do you actually plan on drinking absinthe or are you just going to write a dissertation on Kosher Laws? ;)

 

Luscious Oily Lesbians!. I can assure you that I was drinking some Lucid while writing that... actually two :). But then again, that's the whole point. I plan on drinking a lot of Absinthe... I just have to be more particular than most people. SO I figured the people here could help me determine which Absinthes are for sure made with grain and beats eor something other than grapes and which are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Possibly, but in the far more diverse and important category of craft beer consumption, it would be no contest.

 

Besides, I've imbibed more than enough absinthe to rest on my laurels for an eternity, and then some. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I'm glad of that Obercreative. Just want you to enjoy yourself. :cheers: On a side note if ever there is a Kosher Laws category on Jeopardy! I will thank you. I've learned quite a bit more on the subject. :thumbup:

 

Nice Zing Baubel. :biggrin:

 

None shall ever question your dedication to craftbeer abs. The Clown King of Craftbeer dwarfs all. :worshippy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not on the beer sites, he doesn't.

 

But around these parts, he doesn't mind being a relatively big beer Fish™ in a relative small pond. ;) :cheers:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×