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Absinthe and goth

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One would think that if goths really drink absinthe because it's a part of the Victorian era influence and that absinthe has been a "part of the goth culture" for a rather long time, they would know not to drink crap and set it on fire... Pffft

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much less to the victorian period (1860's to 1900), that with all their ultra-conservative and excessively prude ways and narrow minded society isn't definitely the right influence of the very recent musical "goth" movement.

 

So labels, in the past and even more today, aren't always what they seem and very rarely are self-atributed...

There's a significant difference in origin between some types of Goth music; and the Goth aesthetic varies even more widely in it's influence. The first major form of "gothic" music, Goth-Punk, developed predominantly from Punk, and is therefore somewhat akin to the artistic/political sources you refer to, though only secondarily, and it's heyday ended shortly after the '70s. The second major form, Goth Rock, owes far less to those influences; and is far more strongly influenced by the Romantic period, and post-punk nihilism, than by anything else. More contemporary forms are derived from various other sources, the most notable being Ethereal, which owes a lot to Impressionist and Medieval music.

 

The Goth asthetic owes quite a bit to the Victorian period. Much influential literature was written during that time as well. The Victorians, despite their outward prudishness and conservatism, had a strong, barely submerged streak of licentiousness, and a preoccupation with darker, partcularly supermatural, themes. "Gothic" literature, with it's emphasis on the supernatural, intensity of emotion, and abnormal mental states developed during this period. Dracula itself is generally understood to be something of a metaphor for the Victorian attitude toward sexuality.

 

As an aside, most modern artistic movements have been at least partially, or even predominantly political; the most notable exception being the Impressionists. DAda started originally as an anti-war movement; and Surrealism was as concerned with social as artistic change, being based heavily in Freudian psychology.

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One would think that if goths really drink absinthe because it's a part of the Victorian era influence and that absinthe has been a "part of the goth culture" for a rather long time, they would know not to drink crap and set it on fire... Pffft

I don't know that many people who do the fire thing. Very few, actually; and most of those are babybats (teenage newbies), mansonites, and gravers, not old-school goths. The few old-school types I know that do, do it mainly because they're pretentious dweebs who think it "looks cool" and impresses the babybats.

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I got hissed at by a goth girl after bumping into her at some vamp club in Atlanta called Nocturnia. That made me giggle.

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Origin of Goth

 

The original Goths were Scandinavian barbarians who made repeated invasions to various parts of the Roman empire from AD 200 to AD 500.

 

The word Gothic however, is used to describe the architecture of Western Europe from the 12th to the 16th centuries.

 

According to one FAQ Farmer, modern "goth" fashion may have originated from people who thought that vampires were "cool". But, more and more complex things came up during the origination and goths were thought of as the sign of a devil. Later, goths were then just thought of people from the "dark side".

 

According to another: The goth style of dressing as seen today originated from the early punk scene, which started as disco was fading in the late 70's and early 80's.

 

:punk:

 

The Combat Boots worn by Goth persons are a reminder of when the Scandinavians stomped a lot around the Roman Empire.

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YES!

Instead of sinking bad absinthes, if we try one we think is bad, we'll pillage and burn everything in sight.

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Origin of Goth

 

The original Goths were Scandinavian barbarians who made repeated invasions to various parts of the Roman empire from AD 200 to AD 500.

 

 

who-da thunk that there could actually be goths that you didn't have to laugh at?

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YES!

Instead of sinking bad absinthes, if we try one we think is bad, we'll pillage and burn everything in sight.

With luck you'll be in a room full of Absinth when this happens.

 

Just remember to run out of there so you can do it again.

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What's a Goth to drink?

"Or I could make a career of being blue,

I could dress in black and read Camus,

Smoke clove cigarettes and drink vermuth,

Like I was seventeen,

That would be a scream,

But I don't wanna get over you...."

--Magnetic Fields

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Origin of Goth

 

The original Goths were Scandinavian barbarians who made repeated invasions to various parts of the Roman empire from AD 200 to AD 500.

 

The word Gothic however, is used to describe the architecture of Western Europe from the 12th to the 16th centuries.

 

 

Today's "goths" have nothing to do with those goths, visigoths, sueves and all those barbarian tribes (completely stupid and illiterate) of the north-east of Europe that invaded the Roman Empire in the IV century AD. Today's "goths's" imagery, vampires, ghosts, the Devil, the occult, etc, can be traced directly to the Gothic Literary Period of the middle to late XVIII century.

 

Let's go step by step

 

Why is that literary period named Gothic? It was a form of marking their anti-classicism. They borrowed it from the Gothic architectural period (much older, like it's mentioned in the quoted post) BECAUSE, like that period, they were against all that predated them. I'll explain: the gothic architecture was in complete opposition to its' precedent movement. What was it? The Romanic. BECAUSE it was named "romanic" (nothing to do directly to the roman empire, although the architecture was based in certain elements of roman architecture), that revolutionary architectural movement was named Gothic, a reminder of the way the goths, the barbarians, were against and destroyed the roman empire. Confusing?...A bit, but that's what happened.

And that's why today's "goths" shouldn't have absolutely nothing to do with the original barbarian goths. There are no cultural or aesthetic links. Those links can be found, yes, in the Gothic Literary Period. Check them out. Available in any basic school book. Authors like George Crabbe, Horace Walpole, Ann Radcliffe, Mathew Gregory Lewis, men and women that gave birth to the horror and gore as a literary style, before them there was nothing. They in fact created the basic structure of the Novel in the history of english literature. And unfortunately, they seem to be a little forgotten, lost amidst erroneous references to old stupid barbarians when in fact those authors should be revered as the true creators of anything today connected to the Occult.

 

Cheers.

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Wee. This is a laugh riot.

Today's "goths" have nothing to do with those goths...
I don't believe Wray was suggesting they did.
Today's "goths's" imagery, vampires, ghosts, the Devil, the occult, etc, can be traced directly to the Gothic Literary Period of the middle to late XVIII century.
And Hammer Films.

 

I think you said it better before:

...today's "goth" movement, with all the dark imagery, ghosts, vampires, castles, the Devil, etc, owes it's aesthetic tastes much more to the Gothic artistic movement ... of the late XVIII century and beginning of the XIX, than to the Romantics (1790's-1830's,.., much less to the Victorian period (1860's to 1900), that with all their ultra-conservative and excessively prude ways and narrow minded society isn't definitely the right influence of the very recent musical "goth" movement.

The Gothic Literary Canon is generally considered to fall between 1764 and 1820, as you indicate. Moreover, many people gladly label anything florid and fancy and Olde with the "Victorian" moniker, regardless of the fact that it may come from anywhere between the 16th and 19th centuries.

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Queen Victoria, 1831 to 1901, thems the Victorians.

 

I do prefer the mens fashions from the Edwardian times though.

Sadly, Siouxie didn't make any Edwardian music.

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Try doing Victorian recreation in a big goth city. If I meet one more person that wants to come to the house and talk about how much angst they have I'm going to puke. As a gamer (real gaming, RPGS, Wargames, etc.) I have to accept that we are almost always two sides of the same coin. But seriously! Cheer Up! We live with central air and refrigerators, life is good.

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Queen Victoria, 1831 to 1901, thems the Victorians.

 

William IV would have been devastated to hear you say that, despite how short and insignificant his reign truly was...

 

Try 1837-1901. :P

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The wife and I honeymooned in Montreal. Talk about goth central! On the Rue St. Denis there were literally 11 shops within a quarter of a mile that sold renn fair/goth clothing. One of them had life size statues of Gandalf & Frodo on the roof.

 

As a fashion movement, I actually find goth pretty attractive. Unfortunately, most people who are "goth" are douchebags.

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Hey, I love Lord of the Rings. So does my wife. We both have "I will love you forever" engraved on the inside our rings in Sindarin. That's about as pathetic as you can get (it was her idea, not mine), and I know LOTR and Goth have little to do with eachother, but when it comes to Montreal goth clothing stores, they're apparently synonymous, and I thought that was pretty funny.

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My wife and I have them same thing on our rings. Unfortunately I lost my ring hiking in Utah. I guess some Mormon hobbit is walking around with it around his neck.

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In talking about music fashion being the basis of modern Goth fashion one can't ignore the influence of Glam Rock of the '70s and New Wave of the '80s, especially from England. Glam and New Wave in the US was lame at best and Punk almost never happened, but English rockers who define Glam and New Wave, like David Bowie and Siouxsie Sue still resonate with the attitude and style later Goths adopted. We men certainly wouldn't have been so quick to apply eyeliner in the Eighties and Nineties if David hadn't made it relatively banal and commonplace. I'm sure the washed out look for women wouldn't have persisted if Siouxsie hadn't maintained the image.

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