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Towards an IGP for "Absinthe de Pontarlier" ?


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#1 Clement Arnoux (Aggelos)

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:23 AM

Just learned this morning that a specifications notebook for a "Absinthe de Pontarlier" geographic "trademark" protection has been accepted by the EU.

Details have yet to transpire but the basics would be the following
Can be called "Absinthe de Pontarlier" a beverage which covers the following requirements
- Must be produced in Pontarlier or one of the 21 cities around Pontarlier
- Must be drunk with added water
- Must be based on green (not star) anise and grand wormwood
I am currently trying to obtain the specifications document to know all the specifics.

To me, and contrary to the swiss IGP, this piece of news is not a bad one. The Swiss wanted to have an IGP on "Fee verte", "Absinthe", and "La Bleue". Here there is a clear indication that the protection is limited to "absinthe de Pontarlier".
Suck it Joe, Gwydion, Marc and Cheryll, you won't be able to call your absinthe "absinthe de Pontarlier" ! (seriously though, ever thought of it ?...)

Example of an impact that could have. Let's take for example les Parisiennes
- Rubis, Belle Amie, Perroquet could (probably) be called "Absinthe de Pontarlier", since they are distilled at "Les Fils d'Emile Pernot", in La Cluze et Mijoux which depends from Pontarlier
- Désirée, Coquette, Enjoleuse, not so much.

Same thing with "La Fee"
- La fee XS Française --> Absinthe de Pontarlier
- La fee, la fee bohemienne, la fee XS Suisse --> Absinthe (for now)
Absinthe makes me a different man. Why shouldn't he also have his two glasses ?
Unless Absomphe-related, if it's about old things, you can ask me

#2 Père Ubu

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:38 AM

EP & Pernod in an alliance? As long as they don't hog 'absinthe', we won't hang them.

#3 Clement Arnoux (Aggelos)

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:49 AM

Well actually that puts Pernod away from the "cool guys". Even though they tell everyone they want to get back in the "good absinthe" business, they won't be able to produce "Absinthe de Pontarlier" as the Pernod Fils of old would have been. It's simple : Pernod does not produce "Pernod Absinthe" in Pontarlier (and they use star anise anyway, that's two faults)

There is another action being led in parallel so the the French legal alcool taxonomy includes "absinthe" (which is not the case presently, and therefore absinthe must still be designed as "spirit").
Regarding to that, EP, Pernod Ricard, Guy, etc, are all in the bandwagon. But the resulting specifications may be very broad, since everyone sees absinthe differently and can't agree with everyone else.
Absinthe makes me a different man. Why shouldn't he also have his two glasses ?
Unless Absomphe-related, if it's about old things, you can ask me

#4 Joe Legate

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:03 AM

Suck if Joe <snip> won't be able to call your absinthe "absinthe de Pontarlier" ! (seriously though, ever thought of it ?...)

Ooooooo, that makes me so mad! Not. <wink>

<---Never considered Ridge Pontarlier.

#5 greytail

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:48 AM

Nah,
Ridge King of Spirits might work though.
Nos adepto quis nos mereo. Nos mereo quis nos adepto.

#6 OMG_Bill

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:00 AM

F'n OUCH!!!
Some folks may cringe each time I use the term "Booze" regarding these high quality drinks.
I mean no offense. There are bottles of extraordinary booze out there. I've tasted a few. Relax.

#7 greytail

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:58 AM

No, in a good way Bill. No similarities intended between the two I assure you :laugh:
Nos adepto quis nos mereo. Nos mereo quis nos adepto.

#8 Clement Arnoux (Aggelos)

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:06 AM

Yes, I definitely find ....
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Rigde racier
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Absinthe makes me a different man. Why shouldn't he also have his two glasses ?
Unless Absomphe-related, if it's about old things, you can ask me

#9 pierreverte

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:16 PM

Apparently, for this IG 'Absinthe de Pontarlier' designation, absinthes must also contain a MINIMUM of 20mg/kg of thujone.

What this is, in a large part, is François Guy once again changing his story to the government and the press to be now able to say 'officially' that his absinthe is authentic (don't expect beet alcohol or 45% to be ruled out) and that 'American-legal' absinthes (which also includes those made in Pontarlier AND the Val de Travers) are inferior because they don't contain enough thujone.
I'm sure his move was aggravated further when his US importer never brought his absinthe into the American market, once it was approved: Guy US absinthe COLA 2008
Guy can now say his 'real' absinthe was too 'strong' for the USA, and once more for yet another reason, US absinthes will have to defend their legitimacy.
Look for this move to cause an even greater rift in the absinthe world as apposed to helping the cause after the Swiss move...
Absinthe is always greener in the other glass.™

#10 Père Ubu

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:30 PM

If they stick to that, I'll simply not buy, and discourage people from buying, anything with an 'Absinthe de Pontarlier'. Because I have a policy never to support those that push the BS that thujones are necessary for 'real' absinthe. Some have changed their position on thujone, and I have adjusted my purchases accordingly.

#11 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:49 PM

Thanks for the details Peter. Clement, I think you missed that bit.

Suck it Joe, Gwydion, Marc and Cheryll, you won't be able to call your absinthe "absinthe de Pontarlier" ! (seriously though, ever thought of it ?...)

Um, no, I hadn't ever thought of calling Marteau "Absinthe de Pontarlier". That would be stupid. Also, you're assuming the US would sign on to uphold the IGP.

Well actually that puts Pernod away from the "cool guys". Even though they tell everyone they want to get back in the "good absinthe" business, they won't be able to produce "Absinthe de Pontarlier" as the Pernod Fils of old would have been. It's simple : Pernod does not produce "Pernod Absinthe" in Pontarlier

I'm pretty sure P-R could buy back the plant in Pontarlier from Nestlé in a heartbeat if they wanted it.

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Master Distiller, Gnostalgic Spirits Distillery
www.absinthemarteau.com
Confessions of an Absinthiste


#12 Père Ubu

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:56 PM

Thanks for the info Clement and PV, something to think about for sure.

#13 Phoenix

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:15 PM

Apparently, for this IG 'Absinthe de Pontarlier' designation, absinthes must also contain a MINIMUM of 20mg/kg of thujone.

There's the catch! I knew one would show up eventually. Thanks, PV.
"He's a politician. It's like being a hooker. You can't be one unless you can pretend to like people while you're f***ing them."

#14 Evan Camomile

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:25 PM

To me, and contrary to the swiss IGP, this piece of news is not a bad one. The Swiss wanted to have an IGP on "Fee verte", "Absinthe", and "La Bleue". Here there is a clear indication that the protection is limited to "absinthe de Pontarlier".

I agree, they can have "de Pontarlier" all they want. As long as they don't try to claim an IGP on an entire category I'm fine with it. I'd be fine with the Swiss having an IGP on "La Bleue" even.

Absinthe, Verte, (Rouge), Blanche, and various slang terms belong to the world though.

Apparently, for this IG 'Absinthe de Pontarlier' designation, absinthes must also contain a MINIMUM of 20mg/kg of thujone.

What this is, in a large part, is François Guy once again changing his story to the government and the press to be now able to say 'officially' that his absinthe is authentic.

A douchebag is, as a douchebag does. Those who know, will know better and he will continue to fail as correct information spreads across the globe. I'm sure the fauxsinthe producers of other nations spend time trying to convince people that their sketchy stuff is real.

So now the French have to hit a range from 20-35ppm. A window of 15ppm, almost as restrictive as the American window of 10ppm :pirate: .

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#15 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:27 PM

Sounds like "X-Games, Distillation"!
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#16 baubel

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:02 PM

Finally, a sporting event I'd be interested in watching. :twitchsmile:

A little technological fix to a spiritual problem.


#17 Zman (Marc Bernhard)

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:12 PM

Apparently, for this IG 'Absinthe de Pontarlier' designation, absinthes must also contain a MINIMUM of 20mg/kg of thujone.

What this is, in a large part, is François Guy once again changing his story to the government and the press to be now able to say 'officially' that his absinthe is authentic (don't expect beet alcohol or 45% to be ruled out) and that 'American-legal' absinthes (which also includes those made in Pontarlier AND the Val de Travers) are inferior because they don't contain enough thujone.


What a douche. So, even if you make an absinthe following historical processes/recipes, and if it doesn't come in over 20mg/kg thujone, it's not real absinthe?

If you don't like anise at all, you're not likely to care for any decent absinthe, as absinthe is an anise flavored drink. It's kind of like asking if there are any good beers that don't taste like hops or malt.----Hiram

Marc Bernhard, owner and Master Distiller of Pacific Distillery LLC
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#18 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:18 PM

Sounds about right.

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#19 Clement Arnoux (Aggelos)

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 02:18 AM

Thanks for the details Peter. Clement, I think you missed that bit.

Suck it Joe, Gwydion, Marc and Cheryll, you won't be able to call your absinthe "absinthe de Pontarlier" ! (seriously though, ever thought of it ?...)

Um, no, I hadn't ever thought of calling Marteau "Absinthe de Pontarlier". That would be stupid. Also, you're assuming the US would sign on to uphold the IGP.

Well actually that puts Pernod away from the "cool guys". Even though they tell everyone they want to get back in the "good absinthe" business, they won't be able to produce "Absinthe de Pontarlier" as the Pernod Fils of old would have been. It's simple : Pernod does not produce "Pernod Absinthe" in Pontarlier

I'm pretty sure P-R could buy back the plant in Pontarlier from Nestlé in a heartbeat if they wanted it.

Gwydion : that's because I am not in the business and I lack premier information like Peter has that I open threads like that. I suspected à moved from Guy and wanted confirmation.
And of course à "de Pontarlier " dénomination for any American absinthe would be stupid. That was my way to be quircky. I guess I failed at putting the right tone...
Absinthe makes me a different man. Why shouldn't he also have his two glasses ?
Unless Absomphe-related, if it's about old things, you can ask me

#20 Père Ubu

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 03:52 AM

I'm sure most of understood your meaning. But considering how some conversations about thujone have turned lately, you might have accidentally hit a raw nerve.

#21 Julie Legate

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 08:15 AM

And of course à "de Pontarlier " dénomination for any American absinthe would be stupid. That was my way to be quircky. I guess I failed at putting the right tone...

I got it and believe it is conversation worthy.
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#22 Joe Legate

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 08:27 AM

Thanks for the discussion, Clement.

Look for this move to cause an even greater rift in the absinthe world as apposed to helping the cause after the Swiss move...

In many respects, that's up to us. Some of my favorite absinthes are from Europe and their legitimacy has never been in question. That they or US absinthe must fit within a narrow range of thujoneness is so self-serving, it is laughable. Almost all of us have repeatedly insisted that thujone is insignificant to what traditional absinthe is. That remains true no matter where the distillery is located.

#23 Steve Williams

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:32 AM

Apparently, for this IG 'Absinthe de Pontarlier' designation, absinthes must also contain a MINIMUM of 20mg/kg of thujone.

This on top of the minimum 7mg/kg thujone in order to be called "absinthe" in France - which one can guess is to make it difficult to make absinthes for the US market. Pretty tough to try to come in at the narrow range 7 - 10mg/kg. Hmmm, I wonder who could be behind that...

#24 Père Ubu

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:22 AM

Clearly aimed at Ted's and Claude's backs. Pioneers always get all the arrows.

POST #24 REV01
MAJOR REVISION
CHANGE Clause's TO Claude's
*******END********


Yes, my brain has been washed by the SAP corporation. :)

Edited by Miguel, 04 February 2012 - 12:29 PM.


#25 Steve Williams

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:30 AM

Who is "Clause"?

#26 Ron

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:31 AM

That jolly fella in red. Shows up once a year to do a home invasion.
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#27 Ron

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:34 AM

Or maybe this guy?

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#28 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:36 AM

Or maybe Rip Torn.
blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell

#29 Père Ubu

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:24 PM

Claude's (Claude-Alain Bugnon) horribly typoed name. Not enough caffeine this morning.

#30 Steve Williams

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:31 PM

Doesn't affect CAB because he is not in France.


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