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Muse De France

Absinthe de Vichy

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Yes, I would like to taste it.

 

I will send you one bottle,

and one bottle from your production would be welcome ! (Never tasted it, i never tasted one US absinthe made !)

 

Deal!

PM me your informations.

Marc

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As I mentioned, it's not bad. But when I tasted it, it was much sweeter than I prefer, and only after I tried it, did I examine the list of ingredients. So, either your anethole is significantly sweeter than other producers, or the added sugar did make a difference to me.

 

I've had many anise heavy absinthes ( I cut my absinthe teeth on Spanish Absentas ), and I still wouldn't say they are too sweet.

 

I preferred the Raisonee's herbal profile, as it wasn't nearly as sweet.

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But the the amount of sugar is really symbolic... 1,5Kg sugar by 100 liters ! (15 grams per leter).

 

For anyone that doesn't know, the "driest" defined style of Champagne is Brut, which is codified as 0-15 grams of residual sugar per liter (And believe me, most popular ones are taking full advantage of the 15 gram limit). Yes, I know there are "Extra Brut" styles (Extra Brut, Brut Nature, Brut Sauvage, Brut Zero, Sans Dosage, and probably others) that indicate those living at the low end of RS for a Brut. So 15 GPL of sugar is a level that in this style of wine is considered barely detectable. Keep in mind, though, that the acidity present in Champagne greatly mitigates the sugar. Nonetheless, it is present in these concentrations.

 

And if i show you a text, printed, from around 1830, about absinthe recipe with sugar, what will you think ?

 

I think that I, and a lot of others interested in absinthe history would like to see that.

 

If i make a new production without sugar, are you sure that you will find/taste the difference ?

 

Try to add 15gr of sugar inside 1 liter of water, taste it, and let us know what you think ?

15 grams of white sugar = around 1 gram of anethole (for sugar taste)

 

I know that it isn't good to write "sugar" on label for business with real absinthe drinkers,

but I do not get rich even if I do not write "sugar",

so I prefer to follow my idea..... if someone decided to add 15 grams of sugar by liter inside his absinthe 80 years earlier, i am curious to try.

 

So obviously you've gone for it. Good luck with your venture.

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In Europe, it would be my swag (guess) that beets are the primary source of sugar.

 

True, in France, the primary source of sugar are beets.

 

But we have sugarcane from Martinique too (French Caribbean islands)

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Will only 15 grams per liter suddenly propel the beverage from a liquor to a liqueur? Not by the TTB's definition. ;)

 

The definition of a liqueur by french customs is more than 100 grams of sugar by liter.

So Absinthe de Vichy is a liquor.

Edited by Muse De France

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Do all of your recipes follow historical manuscripts? I know Boggysinthe probably doesn't but what about your other absinthes?

 

I am trying to work in this way.

 

Even the BoggyAbsinthe is extrapolated from old texts.....

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So, either your anethole is significantly sweeter than other producers, or the added sugar did make a difference to me.

 

Perhaps it is significantly sweeter because other plants, and because it is only 45%.

Did you try to taste a stronger absinthe with more water ?

 

This recipe use 3 sources of anethole : Green anise from Syria, Fennel from France, Badiane from China.

When you are drinking this absinthe, you are traveling without realizing .... :-)

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And if i show you a text, printed, from around 1830, about absinthe recipe with sugar, what will you think ?

 

I think that I, and a lot of others interested in absinthe history would like to see that.

 

 

 

It is second oldest recipe printed that i know.

The book is from 1831.

Untill now, i show that recipe at only 2 persons, because You must have broad mind to accept ... :-)

It provides two important informations.

But is someone can translate it in English inside this forum ??

I have to take pictures....

 

Most absinthe history gave by "Absinthe historians" are coming from books from 1870/1915. They repeat and repeat Absinthe history wrote by big Absinthe brands during this period.

The oldest printed text that i found is like a slap for these "historians"

http://books.google.fr/books?id=4IsBAAAAYA...%22&f=false

This text of May 1808 show you that "Perrenod fils et Boiteux" brand is still alive in 1808, so that "Perrenod fils et Boiteux" didn't became "PERNOD" in 1805 !

 

1816, the oldest printed absinthe recipe that i found :

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k7813...the.f387.langFR

fabulous text... Is someone translated it in english ?

 

1820, a novel, where you can read that the old soldiers of Napoleon's army drank absinthe to relax..

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5622...nthe.f51.langFR

So we can imagine that Napoleon Bonapart himself drunk Absinthe !

 

1828, J-J VIREY had same problem that absinthe drinkers today.... He was looking for the best Absinthe....

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k2148...res.f577.langFR

 

 

1834, Absinthe is already a plague in Paris

http://books.google.fr/books?id=3us_AAAAcA...sse&f=false

""On faisait, au commencement de ce siècle, un usage fréquent de la teinture alcoholique d'Absinthe, connue sur nos tables sous le nom d'eau d'absinthe ou d'absinthe suisse. On buvait, avant le repas ou au milieu, un petit verre de cette liqueur.

Par là on expérait stimuler l'appétit et reveiller la paresse des organes digestifs.

L'inconstance de la mode a fait justice de cette pratique au moins utile.

MAIS LE PAUVRE, IMITATEUR TARDIF DES USAGES DU RICHE, A CONSERVÉ L'HABITUDE DE BOIRE DE L'EAU D'ABSINTHE, ET CETTE LIQUEUR EST, APRES L'EAU DE VIE, L UNE DE CELLES DONT LE PEUPLE DE PARIS FASSE LE PLUS GRAND USAGE.""

Edited by Muse De France

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For anyone that doesn't know, the "driest" defined style of Champagne is Brut, which is codified as 0-15 grams of residual sugar per liter (And believe me, most popular ones are taking full advantage of the 15 gram limit). Yes, I know there are "Extra Brut" styles (Extra Brut, Brut Nature, Brut Sauvage, Brut Zero, Sans Dosage, and probably others) that indicate those living at the low end of RS for a Brut. So 15 GPL of sugar is a level that in this style of wine is considered barely detectable. Keep in mind, though, that the acidity present in Champagne greatly mitigates the sugar. Nonetheless, it is present in these concentrations.

 

I tried diluting my champagne with water and then it really wasn't sweet!

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So, no fans of muscadine wine around here, huh? (Muscat)

 

My wife loves that stuff, even brought a waterbottle full of it back from Beziers, but it is SWEET. I just enjoyed the local white wines, they were quite tasty. I think white wines are the specialty of the town next to my company's factory, New Beziers.

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Here the text of 1831, second oldest absinthe recipe printed :

It is similar at 1816 recipe, it seems that it was the type of recipe in vogue at that time.

 

roret1.jpg

roret2.jpg

roret3.jpg

 

If someone can translate, you will read that it is a recipe with sugar, and very poor in anis.

 

BUT, for myself, the most important information gave by this text is "Absinthe Fraîche", "Angélique Fraîche" !

So it is clear that, for this recipe, you have to used absinthe fresh, not dried !

And you will see that it is exactely same quantity of Absinthe gave in recipe 1816, so we can imagine that the recipe 1816 was for fresh Absinthe too.

This could explain, in part, why absinthe quantity used was so important in very old recipes : weights should be for fresh plants. (weight of fresh plant = 3 X weight of dried plant)

Edited by Muse De France

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If you need, i can help you to translate old french weights, and old alcohol volume wrote in "% Vol. Cartier".

Today we are using "% Vol. Gay-Lussac".

"% Vol. Cartier". are a lot different. For exemple, the final Absinthe 1816 was 65% vol. Gay Lussac = 24% Vol. Cartier.

 

For Info, genuine books with the 1816 and with the 1831 recipes are for sale.

Edited by Muse De France

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Thanks for posting those texts. They are very interesting. I can read and understand French but I am not a translator, sorry. One thing I find interesting about these recipes is that they do not contain Fennel!

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One thing I find interesting about these recipes is that they do not contain Fennel!

 

Yes, and they are poor in anise.

 

The oldest written recipes Swiss, contain fennel, but they more poor in anise and fennel than recipes for second part of 19th century.

I am always suspicious of handwritten recipes for dating. Except for the recipe "Eau de Mere", coming from an account book.

 

Have a look on this french book from 1774. It is really surprising.

http://books.google.fr/books?id=KLu0NnMtEW...%20&f=false

(Link found by Swen on French Forum)

Page 155, you will find an Absinthe recipe.

Ingredients are :

Tall or Small Absinthe (fresh or dried !)

Cinnamon (Like inside Absinthe de Vichy !)

Juniper

Angelic (Common for modern recipes)

Saffron

Giroffle

Mace (Like inside Absinthe de Vichy !)

Green Anise

 

It is wrote that you can have a yellow color during the distillation.... and i had this problem at beginning ! (more than 200 years later. I found only this book speaking about this problem !)

 

Double distillation

 

Sugar

 

RED COLORATION !! :-) I read inside an other topic that some distillers made red Absinthe... so why not !

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I read inside an other topic that some distillers made red Absinthe... so why not !

Same reason people climb mountains.

 

I'm a bit sensitive to star anise but in small amounts I can tolerate the stuff.

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Yes, I would like to taste it.

 

I will send you one bottle,

and one bottle from your production would be welcome ! (Never tasted it, i never tasted one US absinthe made !)

 

Deal!

PM me your informations.

Marc

 

It seems you have curious way to deal with me .....

I sent you bottles, since long time.

Nothing from you.

And when i am asking news by back Messages, no answers !

I do not know you, I had not of a positive or negative idea on you....

What this means ??

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I notice that Sauvage is the new trendy word of the season in France. Sauvage isn't trendy in Montana, it's the status quo. ;)

 

"Sauvage" : Wild in english.

Perhaps it is now easier to buy wild Tall Absinthe inside french Alpes instead to buy bad crops.

Production is small and Alpes large..... need only bend down to pick up ...

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I notice that Sauvage is the new trendy word of the season in France. Sauvage isn't trendy in Montana, it's the status quo. ;)

 

It's probably a Gaugin thing, although I don't know how well he would have cottoned to Montana. :laugh:

Edited by Absomphe

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