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Thujone Testing and the TTB


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#31 OMG_Bill

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:53 AM

"Surely the amount of thujone in absinthe is of interest to the consumer drinking it ."

 

An informed consumer will not be concerned with such a small amount as he is in it for the love of the drink.

 

Just my uninformed opinion. *smile*


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#32 gee13

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:09 AM

Sure thing, dont disagree with your statement and point of view. The drink is to be savoured no doubt. But my point is if the consumer isnt concerned then thujone levels would be a moot point then. However help me to understand then the ongoing discussion about all things thujone related-  small amounts or otherwise.



#33 greytail

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:24 AM

Here is my opinion. If someone is looking to trip off absinthe, then they will be disappointed indeed. If, after this disappointment dissolves from their memory they still enjoy the taste and appreciate the history, then I think they have found a new enjoyable beverage.

Now, the whole thujone topic can still be researched, but I find that the the argument for thujone affecting secondaries is just as counter productive as the arguments against are.

In any regard, you have a very pleasant drink with or without the secondaries. I know of some who enjoy absinthe but can not drink it on a daily basis like some can due to how the drink affects them. One can come to the conclusion that each of our personnel experiences with the green fairy can be subjective to a degree.

Enjoy it. Be enthralled with it's past and present. Spread the word too. Just don't get too caught up with the side of absinthe that has caused many to walk away with a hung head after seeing that what KOSG claims will occur does not.

All my opinion of course and subject to be dead wrong.

Edited by greytail, 05 July 2013 - 10:25 AM.

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#34 Ambear

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:52 AM

I think the only people who are concerned about thujone are the government/regulating bodies, and the people who are looking to have marketable products approved by the regulators for sale in the US. I think it's silly they care in the first place because it truly doesn't matter, but the government cares anyway, so there it is.


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#35 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:08 AM

Just my uninformed opinion. *smile*

 

Heh, heh, heh... and the sun will rise in the west tomorrow.

 

... However help me to understand then the ongoing discussion about all things thujone related-  small amounts or otherwise.

 

A well sold fallacy can take a lot of time to erase, especially when there are those who, for their own particular reasons, continue to sell it. Add to that the need of some to believe in flying carpets, and well... there you have it.

 

 

I think the only people who are concerned about thujone...

 

I might rather say "The only people who should be concerned about thujone..." And that's only because of the arbitrary policy imposed by the FDA and the TTB.

 

I think it's silly they care in the first place because it truly doesn't matter, but the government cares anyway, so there it is.

 

Yep.


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#36 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:10 AM

Oops! :blush:


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#37 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

The only reason any consumer is concerned with thujone at all is because they've been misinformed to believe that they should be.  Why should they concern themselves with something which has literally no bearing on appearance, aroma, flavor, or any other perceptable characteristic?
 
The only reason distillers need to be aware of thujone content is so that they can remain within the arbitrarily-mandated limits.
 

However help me to understand then the ongoing discussion about all things thujone related

In the pre-ban era, absinthe was falsely blamed for having toxic properties and was subsequently banned after half a century of political propagandizing. Wormwood was the scapegoat because it was what made absinthe unique (leaving the wine and beer industries relatively safe from the temperance movement).
 
Later, and under the mistaken impression that the anti-absinthe propaganda was true, when thujone was isolated and identified as the principle constituent of absinthium wormwood oil, it got the specific blame.  In high concentrations—much higher than have ever been found in any real absinthe—thujone is a dangerous neurotoxin causing seizures, renal failure, and death.  It doesn't have any recreational potential.
 
Still later (1975), and apparently influenced by the drug subculture of the 1970s, some speculated that the ban on absinthe was similar to bans on popular recreational drugs of the modern era, such as cannabis, mushrooms, and LSD, and further speculated that thujone might be similar in action to THC.  This was nothing more than wishful thinking and was debunked within three years (1978).
 
Still later (1998), some enterprising marketers in the Czech Republic*  (absolutely ignorant of the real nature and history of absinthe) decided to revive "absinth" using weirdly-flavored and artificially-colored turquoise vodka.  The selling point was that absinthe was supposedly a hallucinogenic liquor, because it contained thujone.

And thus, with the help of marketing, the myth of thujone as a recreational drug was born. 
 
Yes, those marketers deserve the "credit" for kickstarting the absinthe renaissance, but they did so in such a way that we're still cleaning up the mess a decade and a half later.  What they did, in fact, was shoot themselves and any real absinthe producer in the foot, because people still think of absinthe as some sort of novelty, not to be taken seriously.
 
 
 
 
* I personally suspect that the Czech absinth market was partially intended to help Prague compete with Amsterdam as a popular student vacation destination.


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#38 greytail

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:36 AM

I try not to take it seriously.


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#39 gee13

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:53 PM

I get it now. Thanks.. propaganda, misinformation, conspiracy, factionalism.. just need a little espionage and its got all the hallmarks of a good novel. ;)

Edited by gee13, 05 July 2013 - 04:55 PM.


#40 Brian Robinson

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

The only reason any consumer is concerned with thujone at all is because they've been misinformed to believe that they should be. 

This.


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#41 Evan Camomile

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:47 PM


Yes, those marketers deserve the "credit" for kickstarting the absinthe renaissance, but they did so in such a way that we're still cleaning up the mess a decade and a half later.  What they did, in fact, was shoot themselves and any real absinthe producer in the foot, because people still think of absinthe as some sort of novelty, not to be taken seriously.
 

Truth.

 

The unfortunate part is that those same myths and marketing impede real science from reversing standards that are nothing more than fear politics at their best.

 

Now examine how baseless regulations born from myths and fear politics influence our life unduly in areas outside of absinthe and... go crazy.


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#42 Georges Meliès

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:23 PM

The only reason any consumer is concerned with thujone at all is because they've been misinformed to believe that they should be.

 

That is a wonderfully detailed yet concise summary of the situation. Thanks for that.



#43 herbgirl

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:40 AM

Can I quote you on that Gwydion? I don't think I've ever heard it put so succinctly before. :worshippy:  :biggrin:



#44 redwun

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:34 PM

How many times has he patiently given that rap?!!!  


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#45 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:13 AM

*le sigh*  Lots.


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#46 OMG_Bill

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:38 AM

17, that I know of BUTT it could have been more.

Cheers!
Some folks may cringe each time I use the term "Booze" regarding these high quality drinks.
I mean no offense. There are bottles of extraordinary booze out there. I've tasted a few. Relax.

#47 gee13

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:44 AM

Must be amongst a trainspotter OMG Bill!




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