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Thujone Testing and the TTB

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I am beginning to wonder if the GC being used at the TTB lab is caibrated correctly. I've received two rejections in the last 180 days- the first was for Calmus (which is not an ingredient in my recipe)- the second was for too much Thujone, 270PPM to be exact according the the TTB lab results.

 

This is all very interesting because the same exact formula passed without any issue prior to switching distiller's- (they make you re-submit if you change DSP's)

 

Needless to say I am having an independent lab verify these results because they seem a little screwy.

 

I am curious if anyone else on this forum is having, or has had, similar trouble with the TTB. What is the recourse if independent lab results don't match theirs?

 

Does anyone know if its even possible to get 270PPM without special lab techniques? -

 

If the lab results are correct - anyone know where I can "Destroy" some 270 PPM Absinthe- (it tastes very good!)

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If the lab results are correct - anyone know where I can "Destroy" some 270 PPM Absinthe- (it tastes very good!)

 

 

I'll take it off your hands! :devil:

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Oh man, I haven't heard the phrase "love offering" in many years.

 

But I too am willing to tithe in exchange for some of this relijun :laugh:

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If you're concerned that the TTBs methodology if flawed or sloppy, you could try sending in another sample of the exact same stuff you sent before but labeled as something different and see if they still get the same results.

 

I totally understand your frustration. Good laboratory practices dictate that, first and foremost, test methods be validated and results derived therefrom be reproducible. When you get a non-conforming of off-spec result from a test, you are required to re-run the test a minimum of three times using three different technicians to verify the results of the first test. If the three+ subsequent test results match the first one then you're SOL. If they don't then there needs to be an investigation to determine why the results were different.

 

I am completely ignorant about submitting samples to the TTB for testing. If it's free or if there's a small fee then I would go for it. If it's an expensive and dreadfully laborious process then you would need to evaluate the opportunity costs of re-submitting.

 

By the way, I may also be persuaded to help with the "destruction" of some off-spec absinthe.

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I appreciate all the feedback!

 

I am sending a sample to a private lab for verification.

 

Thanks to all of you willing to help me out- I will certainly keep you posted.

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Marteau samples have been rejected for thujone levels, but nowhere near that amount. Are you using absinthium in your coloring?

 

The results can vary from one apparatus to another. Even if the formula is the same, batch size, cooking time and temperatures can change.

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Ah so this is what is stalling the whole thing. I'd be more than happy to help you "destroy" some of the stuff. What are the regulations for content in say an herbal perfume? My mind always comes to the idea of lemonade out of lemons with this sort of thing. I'm sure there are uses for Absinthe other than drinking... very sure. :devil:

Edited by Tatan

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When I carry absinthe on airplanes I just label the bottle "facial astringent".

 

Yes, I'll use it that way. :devil:

 

Aroma therapy is a good way also.

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Private testing of that batch yielded 28ppm. I think maybe someone at the TTB moved a decimal point but either way it didn't pass.

 

They do have a batch that passed in two different labs but is still awaiting review from the slow, slow, moving TTB.

 

I believe destruction of the "270ppm" stuff is already complete.

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Good News! Our Formula was finally approved last Monday by the TTB.

I think there was a learning curve in thujone testing the TTB lab was unwilling to admit. I won't bore you with the details- but multiple submissions all had different results- same formula... Each time the TTB lab took their full 90 days - though they like to lead you on like it will happen tomorrow.

 

Needless to say we had time to perfect things and I think you guys will really enjoy Trinity very soon. Label approval is in process- unless they say our label is somehow too psychedelic- we will be clear to sell by mid November. There will be limited quantities available online as well as several liquor stores and bars in Northern Colorado. Like our facebook page Overland Distillery if you want to be kept in the loop.

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Congratulations, can't wait to read expert reviews of it.

 

Yeah, me too.

 

I don't know what I'd do without those.

 

Certainly not trust my own palate, that's for sure. :rolleyes:

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Hey, I find grapefruits, cayenne, sugarcane, and tangerines in booze, so I ain't trusting m'self. (roquette, grenouille, VC, & Sauvage for those keeping track)

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just to clarify;

 

I said 'looking forward to the reviews' as it is an american product therefore out of my reach.

 

I also like to read the reviews on new Absinthe.

 

I hope this one is a great success, can't have too many great Absinthes in the world.

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The first batch I tried, the older one which melted down the TTB testing gear, was pretty bad. The second batch I tried, the much more corrected version, was okay. If there's been more batches done since, and more corrections, I'd be willing to bet it'll be just fine, and could make its way into my collection. But I'll also wait for some reviews. Methinks Amber and Evan will have first dibs, and first reviews, so keep your eyes on those two.

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Thanks Marc thats what I thought about the $$ but was just wondering if there was, being new to this Im trying to wrap my head around what you say about thujone levels not meaning anything to the consumer though. Why is there so much debate around levels then? Be it legal or otherwise. . Yes Ive read extensive articles about the subject and am aware that the production camp uses this in marketing and inversely with the authorities. Surely the amount of thujone in absinthe is of interest to the consumer drinking it .

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