Jump to content

 

Photo

Swiss IGP for exclusive use of the word "Absinthe"


  • Please log in to reply
656 replies to this topic

#631 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,279 posts

Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:18 AM

I have yet to see any non-anecdotal evidence that absinthe originated in VdT.  On the other hand, I've seen many recipes for it in English-language distilling and apothecary treatises since long before the 1790s, that made no mention of France or Switzerland.  The anise-fennel-wormwood tonic itself has been around for ages.


Maker of Marteau Absinthe and Foxtrot London Dry Gin
Distiller, Stone & Szilard Distilling Co.
www.absinthemarteau.com


#632 Evan Camomile

Evan Camomile

    "Mr The Judge"

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,689 posts

Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:43 AM

I'd love to see those sources. I've been questioning the VdT origin of absinthe for a while now, so some harder evidence against the Dr. Ordinaire tale would make my day.


American Absintheur
Blog | FB | Twitter


#633 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,279 posts

Posted 14 August 2014 - 09:24 AM

Sure, no problem.

 

William Y-Worth, 1705:

 

Attached File  69.png   40.75KB   0 downloads Attached File  70.png   40.17KB   0 downloads


Maker of Marteau Absinthe and Foxtrot London Dry Gin
Distiller, Stone & Szilard Distilling Co.
www.absinthemarteau.com


#634 Joe Legate

Joe Legate

    2 jobs. 0 sense.

  • Advisory Board
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,002 posts

Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:59 AM

Ask and you shall receive. :laugh:



#635 Evan Camomile

Evan Camomile

    "Mr The Judge"

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,689 posts

Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:15 PM

Wow!

Aqua Absinthii, even the name is very similar.

 

Thanks Gwydion!


American Absintheur
Blog | FB | Twitter


#636 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,279 posts

Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:20 PM

My pleasure.


Maker of Marteau Absinthe and Foxtrot London Dry Gin
Distiller, Stone & Szilard Distilling Co.
www.absinthemarteau.com


#637 TheLoucheyMonster!

TheLoucheyMonster!

    Really Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,711 posts

Posted 16 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

At the end of this article is a link to a pdf of the full court ruling in French

http://www.beveraged...-in-Switzerland

 

 

to pdf

http://www.bvger.ch/...c_JjKbNoKSn6A--



#638 Georges Meliès

Georges Meliès

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 254 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:48 AM

According to Marie-Claude Delahaye's blog the issue is finally well and truly dead.

 

A quick translation:

 


 

The Association interprofessionnelle de l’absinthe has decided not to appeal the decision of the federal administrative tribunal. The TAF had ruled for the opposition: absinthe is a generic name and therefore cannot belong solely to the Val-de-Travers.

The Association will nonetheless file a new claim at the Federal Office of Agriclture in early November to obtain an IGP Absinthe Val de Travers and Fée verte Val de Travers.



#639 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,279 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:29 PM

I wish them success in all their worthy endeavors.  


Maker of Marteau Absinthe and Foxtrot London Dry Gin
Distiller, Stone & Szilard Distilling Co.
www.absinthemarteau.com


#640 Georges Meliès

Georges Meliès

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 254 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:46 PM

They should have gone in this new direction in the first place. It would have saved a lot of hassle, as well as money. And it's infinitely more logical. At least now they are asking for a geographical identity, which is the whole point of the IGP system.



#641 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,279 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:08 PM

As far as I knew, they already had the IGP for "absinthe de VdT".  As I recall, that was the protected designation in the deal with Russia.


Maker of Marteau Absinthe and Foxtrot London Dry Gin
Distiller, Stone & Szilard Distilling Co.
www.absinthemarteau.com


#642 Evan Camomile

Evan Camomile

    "Mr The Judge"

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,689 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:57 PM

Yeah sure, as long as nothing is hidden in that attempt.

 

Maybe I'm paranoid but the first attempt was so balls out nuts that I doubt they've completely given up trying to take the entire category. I'll reserve specific comments for when I know more about the new measure.

 

The fact that they are responding to defeat with an explicitly regional classification makes a lot of the previous pro-IGP arguments and excuses fall flat on their face. Something to consider when reading through the older pages of this thread.

 

If it is exactly what is implied though, then by all means let them have it.


American Absintheur
Blog | FB | Twitter


#643 fingerpickinblue

fingerpickinblue

    Hallucinations Sold Separately

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,370 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:18 PM

As far as I knew, they already had the IGP for "absinthe de VdT".  As I recall, that was the protected designation in the deal with Russia.

 

It was the designation stated in that agreement, however when we wrote our position statement I could find no evidence of its legitimacy.


blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell

#644 Marlow

Marlow

    Aeronaut

  • Silver Member
  • 899 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:30 PM

 

Somewhere or other I read that taking this to the last stage will cost them 18,000CHF. A chunk of money, but not huge in the grand scheme. I can only hope that they realize that the odds are against them; they aren't likely to prevail so is it worth throwing good money after bad? It's pretty obvious that their entire argument is flawed.

 

However earlier today I found a French-language Swiss site and read the article, and then the comments. The latter were almost all from people in the Neuchatel area (the website was for a newspaper there). They were emphatically aghast that the ruling went against them. So it's not just the producers. There's huge support for the proposal among the local residents. Still, they are outnumbered. No matter how strong their civic pride and love of local history, it's just not possible to say that absinthe is unique to VdT. For that mater, people are still arguing over the question of whether it even started there or not. But no matter, even if it did, at the time of the ban there were millions more bottles being produced in France than in VdT.

 

This French language article talks about how angry everyone in VdT is about the judgment.

 


 

 The Interprofession de l'absinthe  Wednesday did not hide its indignation and incomprehension after the decision of the Federal Adminitrative Tribunal to not give the IGP "Fée Verte." Angry, the Interprofesson de l'absinthe will need to determine its chances of success in an appeal. 

 

 

They can cry me a freakin' river....  

 

I can't say how pleased I am to hear that, at last, a court has ruled against these VdT schemes, but I too will be continuing my personal boycott of VdT absinthes.  There are plenty of good choices in the world these days, and I see no reason to buy from dishonest people.

 

If you feel the need to buy absinthe from Switzerland, I suggest Duplais Verte.

 

Otherwise, there is a long list of quality offerings from France and the USA to choose from.


Annihilating all that's made
To a green thought in a green shade.

#645 SethP

SethP

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 181 posts

Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:58 PM

Well, Marlow. My personal boycott is over, or at least it will be soon. I just need some kind of confirmation on this (and as reported in Georges Meliès post no. 638 above) and also that the issue regarding the general term absinthe is now over and can't be resumed again.


Edited by SethP, 02 September 2014 - 08:06 PM.

Top five brands so far:
Jade (PF) 1901 - this is a winner but also quite an expensive brand (It can be well diluted though) | Grön Opal - Swedens most excellent and newest absinthe | Libertine 72 - for the low price and because it can also be diluted really wellDuplais Balance - very tasty indeed and for quite some time my favourite | Mansinthe - which I find a little bit more "spicy" than others, but with no downsides


#646 Georges Meliès

Georges Meliès

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 254 posts

Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:45 PM

I don't think there's any question that the attempt to usurp the name absinthe is truly over. A quick translation of the key part of the article linked above:

 

"The IGP Absinthe its dead. Long live the protected geographic indication Absinthe Val-de-Traver and Fée Verte Val-de-Travers!

 

The Interprofessional Association of absinthe has decided to not appeal the decision of the federal administrative tribunal which agreed with the opposition: absinthe is therefore generic and its name dos not belong solely to Val de Travers. The distillers of the valley feel that they have neither the time nor the means to pursue the arm of justice against the large foreign producers. <Editorial comment: BS!!!>

 

But the association still intends to defend what their producers distinguish on the market. They will therefore plead for a new IGP case, this time adding a place name, to defend the demoninations Absinthe Val-de-Traver and Fée verte Val-de-Travers. The process will take "about a year and a half", according to Yves Kübler, vice-president of the Association interprofessionnelle de l’absinthe.

 

These new appellations will have two advantages, according to Yves Kübler: on the one hand they would seem not to disturb foreign competition, on the other hand they assure as great a visibility as if the IGP Absinthe had been accepted."

 

Once again, I have to question why they didn't take the logical route in the first place instead of trying to hijack the entire name..........



#647 fingerpickinblue

fingerpickinblue

    Hallucinations Sold Separately

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,370 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:08 AM

A friend of mine here once said "Bipeds will be bipeds."


blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell

#648 SethP

SethP

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 181 posts

Posted 04 September 2014 - 04:46 AM

I don't think there's any question that the attempt to usurp the name absinthe is truly over. A quick translation of the key part of the article linked above:
 
"The IGP Absinthe its dead. Long live the protected geographic indication Absinthe Val-de-Traver and Fée Verte Val-de-Travers!
[...]"
 
Once again, I have to question why they didn't take the logical route in the first place instead of trying to hijack the entire name..........

 

Well, I also truly think it's over by now and I'm glad it's so. I don't think the Association interprofessionnelle de l'absinthe will appeal the verdict to the Swiss supreme court after this good news. (But something (?) also makes me hope that the expiration date for such an appeal has passed.)

 

For all I care they can have an IGP for the regional labeling and marketing as described by themselves in this pdf file (that would certainly be the "logical route" as you said). So common sence has now prevailed, even within the AIA it seems. And now I can also buy some of the fine absinthes from VdT again, as I said before, without any bad feelings about it.  :)

 

Edit:

A google translation from the pdf says:

"While deeply disappointed with this decision, it acknowledges and renounces 
appeal to the Federal Court to avoid a sterile battle with no real chance of success. 
However, this defeat does not disturb anything in the will of the members"
 
Well... Too bad common sence hurt their feelings.  :dry:

Edited by SethP, 04 September 2014 - 04:53 AM.

Top five brands so far:
Jade (PF) 1901 - this is a winner but also quite an expensive brand (It can be well diluted though) | Grön Opal - Swedens most excellent and newest absinthe | Libertine 72 - for the low price and because it can also be diluted really wellDuplais Balance - very tasty indeed and for quite some time my favourite | Mansinthe - which I find a little bit more "spicy" than others, but with no downsides


#649 Marlow

Marlow

    Aeronaut

  • Silver Member
  • 899 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:38 PM

Well, Marlow. My personal boycott is over, or at least it will be soon. I just need some kind of confirmation on this (and as reported in Georges Meliès post no. 638 above) and also that the issue regarding the general term absinthe is now over and can't be resumed again.

 

Well, Seth, that's fine.  

 

Just be aware, they didn't renounce their skullduggery; they just lost in court and are making a virtue of necessity.

 

As for me, I don't always buy Swiss absinthe, but when I do, I buy Duplais.


Annihilating all that's made
To a green thought in a green shade.

#650 SethP

SethP

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 181 posts

Posted 12 September 2014 - 01:18 AM

Duplais sure is a brand for me too. (And Mansinthe from the same producer of course.)

 

 

I can't really say that I've got any VdT favorites either, at least yet, apart from Blanche Neige that for a blanche I found to be a real treat. I've had Kübler back in 2011 but I'll probably not buy that again. Not that it's a bad absinthe in any way but I just found Blanche Neige sooo much better. (I just hope that they'll release the latter in a 50cl bottle some time soon.) Kübler doesn't really get much help either, for me, due to the company (or it's owner) being such a major player, as I understand it (?), in the efforts for an IGP regarding the general term absinthe initially. So I guess I'd say I agree, in a way or another, with your remark about them just "making a virtue of necessity" At least I feel a bit :g: about them too, but I can't find any specific reason to maintain a personal boycott any longer though. I'm just aware now about them not playing nice so to speak.

 

(I guess I have to say that my purchase of Blanche Neige was a "mistake" though.  :unsure:

I think it was released during my boycott... yes, it was in december 2013. My only excuse is that it came with an offer I found hard to resist.)


Edited by SethP, 12 September 2014 - 01:19 AM.

Top five brands so far:
Jade (PF) 1901 - this is a winner but also quite an expensive brand (It can be well diluted though) | Grön Opal - Swedens most excellent and newest absinthe | Libertine 72 - for the low price and because it can also be diluted really wellDuplais Balance - very tasty indeed and for quite some time my favourite | Mansinthe - which I find a little bit more "spicy" than others, but with no downsides


#651 Georges Meliès

Georges Meliès

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 254 posts

Posted 17 December 2014 - 03:08 PM

After all the hoopla with VdT trying to take ownership of the name Absinthe, and finally accepting the decree and moving on to a more logical (and limited) IGP of Absinthe de Val-de-Travers, now it seems a group of producers in the area want out of that altogether because the rules would be too strict.

 

The original French press release:

 

 

Communiqué de presse de l'Association des artisans de l'absinthe du Val-de-Travers (AAA)
Conférence de presse du 15 décembre à Môtiers / Val-de-Travers

L'IGP Absinthe Val-de-Travers va tuer les petites distilleries

L'Association des artisans de l'absinthe du Val-de-Travers (AAA), qui réunit une quinzaine de distillateurs représentant environ 60% des distilleries en activité et produisant plus d'un tiers du volume de l'absinthe du Val-de-Travers est opposée à l'IGP Absinthe Val-de-Travers et Fée verte Val-de-Travers. Elle la combattra en cas d'acceptation par l'OFAG, l'Office fédéral de l'agriculture.

Laissez-nous distiller en paix !

Ces artisans veulent pouvoir distiller en paix, sans contrôle para-étatique de l'OIC (Office intercantonal de contrôle), qui observe leur manière de distiller et la provenance des plants en facturant l'heure d'examen, déplacement compris.

Ils veulent pouvoir utiliser les herbes dont ils connaissent les vertus et les parfums réguliers sans devoir mettre en oeuvre seulement celles qui poussent au Val-de-Travers et qui ne sont pas toujours de grande qualité organoleptique, quand elles ne sont pas absentes à cause des conditions météorologiques. Ils veulent aussi pouvoir continuer de faire preuve de créativité en faisant progresser leur produit pour séduire les consommateurs.

La régularité du goût de leur absinthe avec des plantes répondant aux critères de la Pharmacopée européenne (Ph. Eur.) leur a permis d'offrir une absinthe constante et de fidéliser leur clientèle. Une grande absinthe trop amère, sans thuyone, ou une mélisse peu parfumée, modifieraient singulièrement la qualité de leur produit.

Vendre de l'absinthe sans évoquer le Val-de-Travers ?

Dans un premier temps, l'Association des Artisans de l'Absinthe du Val-de-Travers n'était pas opposée à une IGP Absinthe Val-de-Travers ou IGP Fée verte Val-de-Travers, pour ceux qui la demandaient. Mais si elle est octroyée par l'OFAG (Office fédéral de l'Agriculture), la région sera IGP. Les « petits » pourront, en principe, continuer à distiller de l'absinthe, mais ils ne devront pas faire mention du Val-de-Travers sur leurs étiquettes, ni indiquer que leur produit est distillé au Val-de-Travers. Quant à la petite fée verte emblématique, elle sera interdite sur la bouteille, de même que toute image de la région.

Cela constituera une perte d'identité pour ces distillateurs qui se sont battus dans la clandestinité et des procès coûteux pour que la tradition de l'absinthe soit maintenue au Val-de-Travers. Vendre de l'absinthe sans évoquer le Val-de-Travers ? Les artisans de l'absinthe de la région ne peuvent pas l'accepter. Ils se battront pour que l'esprit des clandestins ne meure pas dans l'IGP réclamée par les gros producteurs du Val-de Travers.

Association des artisans de l'absinthe du Val-de-Travers – 15 décembre 2014

 

A quick and dirty translation:

 

 

Press release of the Association of Artisans of absinthe of Val-de-Travers (AAA)
Press Conference on 15 December Môtiers / Val-de-Travers

The IGP Absinthe Val-de-Travers will kill small distilleries

The Association of craftsmen of absinthe from Val-de-Travers (AAA), which brings together a dozen distillers representing approximately 60% of the distilleries and producing more than a third of the volume of absinthe in the Val-de -Travers is opposed to the IGP Absinthe Val-de-Travers and Fée Verte Val-de-Travers. They will fight if accepted by the FOA, the Federal Office for Agriculture.

Let us distill in peace!

These artisans want to distill in peace, without para-state control of the OIC (Intercantonal Control Office), who observes how they distill and the origin of the plants by charging examination time, including travel.

They want to use the herbs for which they know the virtues and the regular flavors without having to implement only those grown in Val-de-Travers, which are not always of high organoleptic quality or else unavailable because of weather. They also want to continue to be creative in advancing their product to attract consumers.

The regularity of the taste of their absinthe with plants that meet the criteria of the European Pharmacopoeia (Ph. Eur.) allowed them to offer a constant absinthe and customer loyalty. Much too bitter absinthe, or without thujone, or a lightly perfumed lemon balm would greatly alter the quality of their product.

Sell absinthe without mentioning the Val-de-Travers?

Initially, the Association of Absinthe Artisans du Val-de-Travers was not opposed to a PGI Absinthe Val-de-Travers or PGI Green Fairy Val-de-Travers, for those who asked. But if it is granted by the BLW (Federal Office of Agriculture), the region will be in the IGP. The "little guys" can in principle continue to distill absinthe, but they could not mention the Val-de-Travers on their labels, or specify that their product is distilled in Val-de-Travers. As for the small iconic green fairy, she will be prohibited on the bottle, as well as any image of the region.

This will be a loss of identity for these distillers who worked clandestinely and fought an expensive trial so that the tradition of absinthe would be maintained Val-de-Travers. Sale of absinthe without mentioning the Val-de-Travers? The artisans of absinthe in the region can not accept it. They will fight so that the spirit of the clandestins do not die within the IGP claimed by the large producers of the Val de Travers.

Craftsmen's Association of absinthe from Val-de-Travers - December 15, 2014



#652 fingerpickinblue

fingerpickinblue

    Hallucinations Sold Separately

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,370 posts

Posted 18 December 2014 - 07:00 AM

It's hard for me to imagine that any distiller in V-d-T is using only plants grown in V-d-T.


blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell

#653 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,279 posts

Posted 18 December 2014 - 12:14 PM

They're not.  Are there any anise or fennel fields there?  What about base spirits?  Are they all distilling their own base from all VdT produce?  More power to them if they are, but I don't think it's likely.  


Maker of Marteau Absinthe and Foxtrot London Dry Gin
Distiller, Stone & Szilard Distilling Co.
www.absinthemarteau.com


#654 fingerpickinblue

fingerpickinblue

    Hallucinations Sold Separately

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,370 posts

Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:08 PM

Can someone with the mad search skills get the text for this new proposed IGP? It would be interesting to see for ourselves what the exact limitations are. Louchey???


blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell

#655 Evan Camomile

Evan Camomile

    "Mr The Judge"

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,689 posts

Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:26 PM

Damn, my old route accessing of online EU minutes no longer works. Which also breaks some links from old blog posts about the original IGP.

 

It looks like the small producers in the VdT are lucky the original measure didn't pass as well, it would have probably done the same thing to them that this one will. I think they owe the anti-IGP crowd a belated "thank you".

 

Just sayin'.


American Absintheur
Blog | FB | Twitter


#656 TheLoucheyMonster!

TheLoucheyMonster!

    Really Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,711 posts

Posted 18 December 2014 - 05:48 PM

Can someone with the mad search skills get the text for this new proposed IGP? It would be interesting to see for ourselves what the exact limitations are. Louchey???

 

It looks like details are still in debate, and nothing has been filed yet with the Agriculture office, but something is expected to be filled by 2015.

Now its all about what Absinthe can 'Val-de-Travers" mentioned on the label.

http://www.rtn.ch/rt...the-divise.html

 

for google translation

https://translate.go...the-divise.html



#657 fingerpickinblue

fingerpickinblue

    Hallucinations Sold Separately

  • Content Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,370 posts

Posted 18 December 2014 - 11:23 PM

Thanx for your continuing diligence.


blind man see her, dumb man call her name - Ed Bell


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright © 2014 The Wormwood Society Absinthe Association