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Should a blanche get a 4 or 5 for color?


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#31 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:13 AM

What's the problem? That blanches get a different review

No they don't.

They do if you won't give a blanche 5 stars per this quote:

"I don't give 5's for blanches though."
When a person who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, they will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

#32 Absomphe

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:20 AM

If a blanche is yellow, or anything but clear, it's flawed.


Guess blanchette was flawed then. I thought it was pretty good.


For color, yes.

Some people might say the same for the balance, but I loved its wormwood forward flavor profile.

Yes, I'm Krinkles the Clown on an absinthe a beer bender.

You got a problem with that?


#33 Ron

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:27 AM

If a blanche is yellow, or anything but clear, it's flawed.


Guess blanchette was flawed then. I thought it was pretty good.


For color, yes.

+1
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#34 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:28 AM

"COLOR - the color should be crystal clear and white and free of any tint or hue."

Did you read what the actual online definitions of each number are?
4: Clear, bright, natural. Very attractive
5: Absolutely beautiful. Perfect

How is a 4 an unfair score?
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#35 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:31 AM

They do if you won't give a blanche 5 stars per this quote:


Ahem:

I've also already explained that reviews are subjective and it's very possible that I could give a blanche a perfect 5 overall score.

I've already explained that I rarely even give vertes a 5 for color.


I could see it being a problem if I automatically gave every verte I score a 5 if it didn't have floaties. But I don't. It's a pretty even playing field when it comes to receiving a 4 vs. a 5 in my scoring.
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#36 Joe Legate

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:35 AM

We have the same grade inflation issues in education.
Everyone thinks their work is "A" (Superior) but rarely is it.
Students get pissed at "B" (above average) when the reality is, most of their work is "C" (average).

Edit: In reference to Brian's post two up.

#37 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:37 AM

"COLOR - the color should be crystal clear and white and free of any tint or hue."

Did you read what the actual definitions of each number are?
4: Clear, bright, natural. Very attractive
5: Absolutely beautiful. Perfect

How is a 4 an unfair score?

When someone says:
"I don't give 5's for blanches though."

The full color criteria:
"COLOR - The color should be natural and organic-looking. Greens and whites (clear) are most traditional. Deep yellow and golden-brown amber hues (feuille mort, or “fallen-leaf” colors) are acceptable and often indicate a more aged absinthe. Reds, while apparently very rare, were not unknown. The color should be pleasing and have nuance. Clarity is part of color; the absinthe should be clear and bright, with a minimum of haze and sediment. In a blanche, or white absinthe, the color should be crystal clear and white and free of any tint or hue."

I feel the full criteria is perfect and allows people to judge based on the associated nuance. I've had a blanche that got a 2 because it wasn't clear and discolored. I had one that had a barely noticeable yellow tinge which scored a 3.5 to a 4, and my current BdF gets a 5 on color per the criteria outlined because it's free of debris, clear in every sense of the word, and just has a brightness that I haven't seen, except in the Clandestine Charlotte.
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#38 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:44 AM

So, you aren't using the actual definitions for each number to make a determination?

You seem to keep avoiding my point that I'd give a blanche a 5 under some circumstances. Maybe I should revise my original note to say 'I don't normally give a 5 to blanches'. Maybe I should say the same for vertes, since it's also true.
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#39 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:47 AM

They do if you won't give a blanche 5 stars per this quote:


Ahem:

I've also already explained that reviews are subjective and it's very possible that I could give a blanche a perfect 5 overall score.

I've already explained that I rarely even give vertes a 5 for color.


I could see it being a problem if I automatically gave every verte I score a 5 if it didn't have floaties. But I don't. It's a pretty even playing field when it comes to receiving a 4 vs. a 5 in my scoring.

What you say in a forum exchange and what is reflected on the official site are 2 different things. Does everyone who reads the reviews browse the forums, and vice versa?

OK, I'm going to change 2 words in your quote: I don't give jobs for blacks though.

Subjective, or not, that shows bias.
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#40 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:55 AM

What you say in a forum exchange and what is reflected on the official site are 2 different things.

I really think you're blowing this just a tad out of proportion.

Please make a list of the blanches that you feel deserve a higher score from me. Then we can compare them to the other scores for the same brand and see how much my score has dragged them down.

What exactly are you asking for? As we discussed in this thread, I am not oposed to giving a blanche a 5 if I feel it is amazing and deserving of one. Are you calling for me to give all blanches a 5, or are you hoping that I'd reword my statement in the review?
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#41 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:57 AM

So, you aren't using the actual definitions for each number to make a determination?

You seem to keep avoiding my point that I'd give a blanche a 5 under some circumstances. Maybe I should revise my original note to say 'I don't normally give a 5 to blanches'. Maybe I should say the same for vertes, since it's also true.

If it's flawless (absinthes != diamonds) it gets a 5. If there's something off then I drop it depending on how distracting the flaw(s) is/are, quantity of flaws, etc. I am using the actual definition.

I'm not avoiding anything. In a review, where it's still displayed for the average consumer: "I don't give 5's for blanches though." Also, to change it up later in the discussion doesn't look good, IMO. From my understanding, and after a little back-and-forth, you said that there might be a possibility - which isn't definitive and seems like a way out. Before it was stated that blanches don't get 5's because they don't go through the coloring process (paraphrased). To change it up and say that a person doesn't normally give 5's to vertes does nothing about the bias - I expect this from Republicans :)

Brian, I respect you and your abilities, and I know I can't detect the nuances that you can in everything I drink. However, I do feel the WS Evaluation Sheet is perfect and allows a level playing field. I think there is a certain protocol people in a position of authority should follow, and the appearance of "no bias" is one big one.
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#42 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:01 AM

From my understanding, and after a little back-and-forth, you said that there might be a possibility - which isn't definitive and seems like a way out. Before it was stated that blanches don't get 5's because they don't go through the coloring process (paraphrased). To change it up and say that a person doesn't normally give 5's to vertes does nothing about the bias - I expect this from Republicans :)

This isn't the first time I've said that about blanches, so it has nothing to do with this 'back-and-forth'.

However, I do feel the WS Evaluation Sheet is perfect and allows a level playing field. I think there is a certain protocol people in a position of authority should follow, and the appearance of "no bias" is one big one.

How do you propose to account for blanches being artificially inflated vs. vertes then? Most vertes dont get 5s for color. If all blanches are given a de facto 5 if they aren't tinted or have floaties, then they are getting higher scores simply by not going through a coloration process. That penalizes the vertes.
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#43 Ron

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:03 AM

Well, I'm certainly not here to muzzle Tayker's e-trumpet of equality, but I agree that this whole thing has been blown out of the water.

Maybe Brian will change how he reviews blanches. I'm not going to though. An uncolored blanche doesn't deserve a 5 for COLOR from me, nor will it ever get one. My two cents.

Cheers.
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#44 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:04 AM

I think there is a certain protocol people in a position of authority should follow, and the appearance of "no bias" is one big one.

Are your comments about the poorness of my reviews, or are they about a poorly worded explanation of my color rankings? If it's the latter, then I'll reword it to reflect what we've said here. If it's the former, then I challenge you to point to any blanche where my review has made a significant detrimental impact on the cumulative scores.

Every review system has its flaws. I don't like that vertes are at an automatic disadvantage since very few are ever scored a 5 for color. Because of that, I use a 4 for most blanche reviews because that levels the playing field with my verte reviews.
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#45 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:05 AM

What you say in a forum exchange and what is reflected on the official site are 2 different things.

I really think you're blowing this just a tad out of proportion.

I'm equally passionate about my side of the issue as you are, and I feel like I'm keeping it pretty civil.

Please make a list of the blanches that you feel deserve a higher score from me. Then we can compare them to the other scores for the same brand and see how much my score has dragged them down.

What exactly are you asking for? As we discussed in this thread, I am not oposed to giving a blanche a 5 if I feel it is amazing and deserving of one. Are you calling for me to give all blanches a 5, or are you hoping that I'd reword my statement in the review?

As I've stated earlier, I know my strengths and limitations and won't portray a facade that others (not you) do. However, I do have reason to question your opinion on some reviews in an official capacity.
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#46 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:11 AM

I do have reason to question your opinion on some reviews in an official capacity.

Well duh. Not everyone is going to agree with my reviews. Just like not everyone will agree with Michael Jackson's reviews of certain whiskies. Everyone has an opinion.

The reviews are guides used to give people a good impression of what to expect if and when they buy a brand. Do you really feel my choice to give a 4 instead of a 5 in color for a blanche will significantly skew the consumer's experience with a brand they purchase?

And just an FYI, it's not labelled 'expert review'. It's labelled editor review.

Feel free to list the reviews you question. As mentioned above, we can discuss them all you like. The fact of the matter is that my overall score differs very little from the others that score it a 5 for color. So if you're going to ding me for my color rating, you'll have to also ding me for my ratings of other criteria.
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#47 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:13 AM

I think there is a certain protocol people in a position of authority should follow, and the appearance of "no bias" is one big one.

Are your comments about the poorness of my reviews, or are they about a poorly worded explanation of my color rankings? If it's the latter, then I'll reword it to reflect what we've said here. If it's the former, then I challenge you to point to any blanche where my review has made a significant detrimental impact on the cumulative scores.

Every review system has its flaws. I don't like that vertes are at an automatic disadvantage since very few are ever scored a 5 for color. Because of that, I use a 4 for most blanche reviews because that levels the playing field with my verte reviews.

My comments are about bias that contradict the WS evaluation sheet.

Review systems have flaws, yes. Reviewers have ethical standards that don't translate to criteria, rules, etc, though. Vertes have an extra factor because the color can be equally off-putting as a dirty blanche.
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#48 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:14 AM

I'm equally passionate about my side of the issue as you are, and I feel like I'm keeping it pretty civil.

You can be civil while still blowing things out of proportion.
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#49 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:16 AM

My comments are about bias that contradict the WS evaluation sheet.

My giving a 4 vs. a 5 does not in any way contradict the scoring sheet.

Reviewers have ethical standards that don't translate to criteria, rules, etc, though.

Which I've addressed by putting vertes and blanches on equal ground by not giving blanches an automatic 5.
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#50 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:17 AM

And just an FYI, it's not labelled 'expert review'. It's labelled editor review.

That is correct, and your review is as an official WS representative. A person's credentials are implied with that title.
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#51 Leif Rogers

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:17 AM

Just like not everyone will agree with Michael Jackson's reviews of certain whiskies. Everyone has an opinion.


Michael Jackson's helped me immensely as I've only purchased whiskies that rated as a "thriller". Never ever buy a "bad" one...


Sigh. Couldn't help myself.
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#52 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:19 AM

That is correct, and your review is as an official WS representative. A person's credentials are implied with that title.

See my post above your last one. I don't know how I can explain it any clearer.
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#53 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:19 AM

I'm equally passionate about my side of the issue as you are, and I feel like I'm keeping it pretty civil.

You can be civil while still blowing things out of proportion.

True, but there's a negative image associated with the term "blowing things out of proportion." I try to not use phrases like that in an exchange because it starts to paint the other person as unwieldy, out of control, etc - which is why political debates grate on my nerves sometimes.
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#54 Ron

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:22 AM

True, but there's a negative image associated with the term "blowing things out of proportion." I try to not use phrases like that in an exchange because it starts to paint the other person as unwieldy, out of control, etc - which is why political debates grate on my nerves sometimes.

After you just questioned Brian's ethical standards? Really?!

If a blanche can't get fairly rated, what does it say about the reviewer or the site that is allowing it to happen?

Review systems have flaws, yes. Reviewers have ethical standards that don't translate to criteria, rules, etc, though.


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#55 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:22 AM

My comments are about bias that contradict the WS evaluation sheet.

My giving a 4 vs. a 5 does not in any way contradict the scoring sheet.

Reviewers have ethical standards that don't translate to criteria, rules, etc, though.

Which I've addressed by putting vertes and blanches on equal ground by not giving blanches an automatic 5.

Your official review states: "I don't give 5's for blanches though."

I never said blanches get an automatic 5, and explained that I've come across some that won't get a 5. I do think deviating from the WS evaluation sheet doesn't help either.
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#56 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:23 AM

I try to not use phrases like that

That's fine. But you have. I worded the review improperly. I'll change it. But that doesn't lessen the value of the reviews themselves, nor does it dismiss the fact that all of the reviews are on equal ground based on what I've explained earlier.

I do think deviating from the WS evaluation sheet doesn't help either.

*Le sigh* For the last time, it's not being deviated from...
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#57 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:25 AM

True, but there's a negative image associated with the term "blowing things out of proportion." I try to not use phrases like that in an exchange because it starts to paint the other person as unwieldy, out of control, etc - which is why political debates grate on my nerves sometimes.

After you just questioned Brian's ethical standards? Really?!

I was trying to ignore you, but I wanted to frame this beauty for what it is.
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#58 tayker

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:28 AM

I try to not use phrases like that

That's fine. But you have. I worded the review improperly. I'll change it. But that doesn't lessen the value of the reviews themselves, nor does it dismiss the fact that all of the reviews are on equal ground based on what I've explained earlier.

I do think deviating from the WS evaluation sheet doesn't help either.

*Le sigh* For the last time, it's not being deviated from...


From your earlier posts:

I don't like that vertes are at an automatic disadvantage since very few are ever scored a 5 for color.


Which I've addressed by putting vertes and blanches on equal ground by not giving blanches an automatic 5.

That's deviating to me, and the reason for it.
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#59 Ron

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:30 AM

Ignore me?! Ha. Get over yourself! So far you've compared Brian's take on rating blanches as being the same thing as keeping women out of combat, and racial discrimination in the workplace. Then you called him a Republican because he offered to make you happy. Then you casually threw out there that somehow the ethics of the official reviewer and the system are in question. You're quite a character, actually. It's fun to watch.
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#60 Brian Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:31 AM

That's deviating to me, and the reason for it.

That's putting vertes and blanches on equal ground, since I very rarely give vertes a 5 either. You'd prefer I give blanches a leg up?

For the last time, read the definitions of 4 and 5 for color. It's not deviating by giving a blanche a 4 if it's clear and has no visibile flaws.
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