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Music Project 2010


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#61 peridot

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:51 AM

Well, in death metal, black metal, and grindcore the blast beat is such an intrinsic part of the music that you'll sometimes find albums where 75% of the drumming is blasting. It's usually not a fill or a gimmick, but rather the fundamental framework of a song. My band uses blast beats much more sparingly than that, but this is because our drummer is not a blaster; he's a rock drummer who hits the holy hell out of the drums and it's hard to work up the stamina to blast through an entire song when you high-stick everything.

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#62 precenphix

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:57 AM

...and it's hard to work up the stamina to blast through an entire song when you high-stick everything.


That's what she said.

I knew a grindcore band (their name escapes me at the moment) who actually programmed their drums in both the studio and in live settings. "Laptop Metal", they called it. Some of the drummers that actually pull this off in real time are impressive. Ankles and wrists of steel. Either that or they're on krank.
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#63 peridot

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:02 AM

Yeah, programming drums is pretty common for extreme metal bands because it can be difficult to find a person who can do what you want. Agoraphobic Nosebleed is a great example; they jokingly call their style machine gun grind. They joked that they finally found a drummer who can play their stuff live, but he had to mount a gatling gun to his kit.

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#64 precenphix

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:18 AM

If you could make said gun fire on time, that would be wild.

...or you could use this one for 256th notes...or more...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgpQBZF2sZQ
Those with knowledge easily sense the truth of things. Those with egos built up on rumor and fancy, tend to maintain a hard line. - Tatan (Evan Camomile)

#65 Babble

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:01 PM

You don't need to use programmed drums when you haue a drummer that can play something like this:



00:36 are when the insane blast beats start.

But then there is another way to play that fast with a real drummer:



I'm referring to the second tune: Bird Gets The Worm, starts at 2:50. I don't know how many b.p.m's that song clocks in at but it sure is fast.

#66 scuto

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 09:31 PM

I'm a blast beat fanatic, but to me it's more about what part is appropriate than anything else. It's hard for me to imagine most Origin guitar parts without blast beats.

Good point--if it's well-used, it can be effective as all get out.

Some blast beats serving an avant-metal cause:

And for the fun of posting this yet again (Bert 'n Ernie blast it up):

Kind of like the "snare rush" of drill 'n bass. Overly used.

Ha! Yup. For a while there is was backwards drums. >yawn<

Programmed drums that sound like a kid playing in a bathtub with an empty detergent bottle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5XJhzPwxmg (I refrained from linking Gantz Graf :devil:)

I knew a grindcore band (their name escapes me at the moment) who actually programmed their drums in both the studio and in live settings. "Laptop Metal", they called it. Some of the drummers that actually pull this off in real time are impressive. Ankles and wrists of steel. Either that or they're on krank.

Meshuggah's previously-mentioned Catch33 has programmed drums. Extremely well done, too. I think they had a live drummer for a while before that.

Prog-tastic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrc-NuOJaZU
"The Saint when he is drinking/Is also pleasing God/As if he were praying and singing." - Angelus Silesius, quoted in Simmel's On Individuality and Social Forms, p.391. (Yay for classical sociology!)

"Full bottle in front of me/Time to roll up my sleeves and get to work/And after many glasses of work/I get paid in the brain" - They Might Be Giants "Your Own Worst Enemy."

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#67 peridot

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:01 PM

Meshuggah's previously-mentioned Catch33 has programmed drums. Extremely well done, too. I think they had a live drummer for a while before that.

They've had the same drummer from 1990 until now, Thomas Haake, who is also one of the lyricists. He programmed the drums for that album using Drumkit from Hell, a drum synthesizer program that he helped create with Toontrack, using his own kit for all the samples. One notable album that uses Drumkit from Hell is Ziltoid the Omniscient by Devin Townsend.

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#68 Babble

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 04:51 PM

Oh so they were programmed on Catch thirty-three. I was under the impression that he just used his drum kit as triggers? That makes more sense though that they were programmed, it would saue time and money in the studio.

On Cannibal Corpse's last album there was a "making of" that came with it and it shows the drummer trying to nail the song I posted above. It's pretty impressive. Ankles and wrists of steel.

#69 peridot

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 05:07 PM

Yeah, I've got that; my band is taken some of their recording methods into consideration while recording our new album.

I really like Cannibal Corpse's drummer. He's doing extreme metal without using triggers, and he doesn't do the finger-playing thing. He smashes the hell out of the drums, no matter how fast the parts are.

I'm not sure why Haake decided to program drums just on that one album, but I'd bet it has to do with the fact that the album is supposed to be just one long song. Recording drums for that sort of thing in one take is nearly impossible and piecing together different takes on drums is a bit more iffy than doing so on guitar. On the following album he played the drums live and used Drumkit from Hell with triggers.

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#70 Babble

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 05:24 PM

Which one was the follow-up? I thought the drums were programmed for Nothing and that other album that was one song but only thirty minutes long... Eye I think it was called?

Those making of videos that CC has put out are very interesting. I couldn't imagine playing drums like that. Imagine hauing a click track in your ear going at 220 bpms!!!

#71 Babble

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 05:40 PM

Some blast beats serving an avant-metal cause:


Gorguts! HaHaHa. I think I'll check them out.

Kind of like the "snare rush" of drill 'n bass. Overly used.

Ha! Yup. For a while there is was backwards drums. >yawn<

Programmed drums that sound like a kid playing in a bathtub with an empty detergent bottle: (I refrained from linking Gantz Graf :devil: )


To me it sounds more like a kid playing with a stapler, paper and a filing cabinet. Cool composition though. I haven't heard Autechre in a long time. They were one band I really wanted to get into but never really did.

What the hell is drill 'n bass? And backwards drums? You lost me there.

#72 peridot

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 06:57 PM

Which one was the follow-up? I thought the drums were programmed for Nothing and that other album that was one song but only thirty minutes long... Eye I think it was called?

obZen is the follow-up.

The drums were recorded live on Nothing, but it was rerecorded in 2006 and they used Drumkit from Hell to replace the original drums. The EP I used live drums.

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#73 peridot

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 05:53 PM

I just had a thought. This has popped into my mind before, but never while I was at the computer.

I was just playing some atmospheric-type guitar parts and I thought, "Man, it would be cool if precenphix could do something with this." And it got me thinking that there could be some cool stuff we could do with collaborations. The traditional method of getting someone else to help complete one's vision is a good approach, but we can also do something a little more fun.

We could, say, get a group of people who are interested to each come up with an instrumental part and pass it around to each person in the group. When the recording comes to you, it's now yours to do with as you see fit and the last person in the cycle only gets to make a request of what they'd most like added (not specifics, just something like "a mellow guitar part" or "some whispered vocals" or "some trippy drums), but the actual composition is completely up to you at that point. Send it around until everyone's had a shot at adding something, and then once it's made it's way around, everyone decides if it's done or if it needs more, and then if it needs to it goes around the group again. Nothing gets taken out; if it sucks it sucks.

Would anyone be up for doing something like that?

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#74 scuto

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 06:10 PM

I don't really have the time to devote to this, though I'm not sure folks would want me re-/de-composing a collaborative track! :devil:

What the hell is drill 'n bass? And backwards drums? You lost me there.


I actually like this track... except for the backwards drums.

I can't think of any indicative drill 'n bass except for Squarepusher and Aphex Twin, though the former dabbled in it a bit more, IIRC. Amen break-trastic!

Edited by scuto, 31 January 2010 - 06:11 PM.

"The Saint when he is drinking/Is also pleasing God/As if he were praying and singing." - Angelus Silesius, quoted in Simmel's On Individuality and Social Forms, p.391. (Yay for classical sociology!)

"Full bottle in front of me/Time to roll up my sleeves and get to work/And after many glasses of work/I get paid in the brain" - They Might Be Giants "Your Own Worst Enemy."

"I've an absinthe factory in my head" (jcbphd, 2009). [Liberties taken. -ed.]

#75 Babble

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:21 PM

Those are backwords drums? They don't sound backwords to me but I know what you are reffering to know.

Same for drill 'n bass. A good example of that would be Aphex Twin's Drukqs right?

#76 scuto

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 06:36 PM

The backwards drum samples are scattered throughout the track.

Drukqs seems to be a good example. I'm still a little fuzzy as to what it is exactly, but it feels like Drukqs has it.
"The Saint when he is drinking/Is also pleasing God/As if he were praying and singing." - Angelus Silesius, quoted in Simmel's On Individuality and Social Forms, p.391. (Yay for classical sociology!)

"Full bottle in front of me/Time to roll up my sleeves and get to work/And after many glasses of work/I get paid in the brain" - They Might Be Giants "Your Own Worst Enemy."

"I've an absinthe factory in my head" (jcbphd, 2009). [Liberties taken. -ed.]

#77 precenphix

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:03 PM

I quite like a reversed sample thrown in a track every once and again. Funkstorung just went a bit overboard with this Bjork remix. Sounds like they're using the hell out of the dblue.glitch pluggin. A bit more subtlety with it would have been better, IMO.

Peridot: lI'd totally be about tossing my hand into a track or two if you're up for it. The "round robin" project would be something cool to do for sure, but that's the one that would really eat up time and get hectic in a hurry. Honestly, anything you'd like me to have a pass or two at, let me know and I'll see what I can cook up, reheat, muddle or otherwise spice up.

As chance would have it, I'm working on a remix for a friend right now. Once again, I'm building from the ground up, so of course it's time consuming. This one should make it onto iTunes though, if I play my cards right and pull it off properly.
Those with knowledge easily sense the truth of things. Those with egos built up on rumor and fancy, tend to maintain a hard line. - Tatan (Evan Camomile)

#78 peridot

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:45 PM

Peridot: lI'd totally be about tossing my hand into a track or two if you're up for it. The "round robin" project would be something cool to do for sure, but that's the one that would really eat up time and get hectic in a hurry.

The way I'm looking at it, it shouldn't. It would be one addition (instrument or vocal or track of sound effects) by each person. Like, say I come up with a guitar part and pass it to you, and you add a synth part and pass it to someone else, who adds drums, who passes it off to someone else for whatever. It would require a small investment from each person.

Good luck with the remix.

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#79 precenphix

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:50 PM

When you lay it out like that, hell...why not? Label it as a collaborative track on the next disc if it's worthwhile. There have been projects like this all over the place. That would actually be a lot of fun.

The remix (or recreation) is coming around pretty well. Upright bass, prepared piano (same sounds from Study in Introspection), a dulcet, live drum samples, a spot of skittery drum 'n bass, and full-on ugly industro beats to round things out.

That's the plan, anyway. ;)
Those with knowledge easily sense the truth of things. Those with egos built up on rumor and fancy, tend to maintain a hard line. - Tatan (Evan Camomile)

#80 peridot

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:06 PM

If one or two other people would sign up for it, then it would become really cool.

If not, let's throw a couple tracks back and forth until we can agree they're done.

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#81 Green Baron

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:18 AM

Hmm, I've thought about this concept too actually. Admittedly, mostly because I must rely on loops for my drums and I'd really love to learn or collaborate with folks that can come up with good beats, bass and other instrumentation.

I'm not super duper confident in my ability to add something cool to a collaboration but I'm willing to try. Since it's not a live jam session, I guess there's always time to go back and try adding something completely different if the first idea doesn't work..

Edited by Green Baron, 03 February 2010 - 12:19 AM.

This post has been edited over and over again by Green Baron

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#82 precenphix

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:01 AM

If this takes off, we should probably start with drums first. At least a basic groove to play / program to so we're all at the same BPM and vibe from the get-go...
Those with knowledge easily sense the truth of things. Those with egos built up on rumor and fancy, tend to maintain a hard line. - Tatan (Evan Camomile)

#83 scuto

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 10:35 AM

I quite like a reversed sample thrown in a track every once and again. Funkstorung just went a bit overboard with this Bjork remix. Sounds like they're using the hell out of the dblue.glitch pluggin. A bit more subtlety with it would have been better, IMO.

I tend to like something reversed if I don't know it is. When it's blatantly obvious it sounds gimmicky to me.

Funkstorung did this remix in 1999. I doubt it was plugin-based then--some folks I know who got caught up in the fad did some tasteful variations of this sort of beat entirely by digital audio cut/copy/paste/reverse in their DAWs.
"The Saint when he is drinking/Is also pleasing God/As if he were praying and singing." - Angelus Silesius, quoted in Simmel's On Individuality and Social Forms, p.391. (Yay for classical sociology!)

"Full bottle in front of me/Time to roll up my sleeves and get to work/And after many glasses of work/I get paid in the brain" - They Might Be Giants "Your Own Worst Enemy."

"I've an absinthe factory in my head" (jcbphd, 2009). [Liberties taken. -ed.]

#84 precenphix

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:04 AM

I was doing that sort of thing with cut 'n paste beats and loops in Cool Edit Pro back in '96. That took some time, jack.
Those with knowledge easily sense the truth of things. Those with egos built up on rumor and fancy, tend to maintain a hard line. - Tatan (Evan Camomile)

#85 Babble

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:10 PM

I would be into the collaborative effort but I have limited equipment. I only have access to ProTools and I would just be able to add guitar.

How would we send the tracks around? By mail?

#86 precenphix

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:22 PM

E-mail via YouSendIt. That's usually the best way.

Drums would be a start, but I guess atmosphere, mood and what key we're going to be in would probably help too.
Those with knowledge easily sense the truth of things. Those with egos built up on rumor and fancy, tend to maintain a hard line. - Tatan (Evan Camomile)

#87 peridot

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:38 PM

We would send them around via yousendit in wav format. Anyone who doesn't have a yousendit account can use mine. Drums don't have to be first because we can record parts to a click track and just make sure to always pass along the tempo and time signature. Keep the time signature and tempo steady from beginning to end so that nobody has to go through a lot of trouble lining up clicks.

I've been thinking of the best way to go about this, and for the sake of keeping a balanced production this would make sense. I'll explain it in a hypothetical example.

* I come up with a guitar part. I send it, with the tempo and time signature info to precenphix.
* precenphix comes up with a synth part. He sends just his part back to me, and I compile everything.
* I send the compiled synth and guitar parts to Green Baron with no new additions from me.
* Green Baron adds a drum part. He sends just his part back to me, and I compile everything.
* I send the compiled drums, synth, and guitar to Babble with no new additions from me.
* Babble adds another guitar part. He sends just his part back to me, and I compile everything.
* I post the compiled track, and we decide if we want to add more.

It's a little easier than passing it around because it does a better job of allowing for levels to be balanced after all of the parts have been recorded, seeing as we all probably use different software and probably don't want to be sharing project files. Babble uses Pro Tools, I use Buzz and Reaper, etc.

Anyone in the group can start a composition but nobody has to. We can use some randomizing method to determine the order of the cycle. If your part doesn't come in right at the beginning, just make sure to pass along the info of where it starts or leave blank space or clicks (which can be removed).

Does that make sense?

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Pudwich: 90's style hard rock

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#88 precenphix

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 01:26 PM

Makes sense. As soon as I'm done with this remix project, I'm down to play.

Let's run this as an experiment first. Since you thought of the idea, go ahead and start, if you'd like. Write a short guitar piece or something. Then we'll draw straws for order and what parts we'll be adding.
Those with knowledge easily sense the truth of things. Those with egos built up on rumor and fancy, tend to maintain a hard line. - Tatan (Evan Camomile)

#89 peridot

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 01:30 PM

Okay. It'll probably be about 3 or 4 minutes long, though. So the whole structure and length of the song will be present (unless someone decides their part starts earlier than or continues later than my part, which is cool too). I've got a clean-tone guitar idea in mind. I'll get to it later this week because I have to restring my guitar and then let the strings get good sounding after a few days. I despise the sound of new strings.

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#90 precenphix

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 02:01 PM

That brings up another point I wanted to raise. Is it alright to manipulate other people's parts? You know, like taking a dry signal and effecting it wet?

Wow...three sentences, three potential innuendos. ;) I'd say that's on par with Absomphe or Baubel.
Those with knowledge easily sense the truth of things. Those with egos built up on rumor and fancy, tend to maintain a hard line. - Tatan (Evan Camomile)


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