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TheGreenOne

Chartreuse Question

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Sorry I wasn't there.

TGO, Don't know if you would have wanted to make the trip for our little get together.

Just sat around, drank and talked.  :drunk:

 

I believe those mini fests are being made into a TV mini series. :shock:

just a s long as I get my percentage....  :P

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Oh, of course it can be un-banned. It's just that it probably won't be as easy as simply proving that an absinthe can be thujone free...

 

It's likely there would be many turns and twists on such a case, but since I believe we all know that it all does come down to the thujone content and things based on out-dated "science" it would of course be quite possible to get it done.

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Well from what I saw the WTO section just said it could be banned for import, not that is was. Of course with the current inter-euro trade , France/Spain/Switzerland/etc...in Absinthe obviously they are not rally worried about it....Just as things stand they (WTO member countries) can ban it under the current regs. But who is going to cut their profits(but income or taxes)?

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That's the basic point. The WTO doesn't ban substances, it just allows other countries to ban them at their discretion without violating trade rules. What the WTO section does mean is that a country can't file an unfair trade complaint against the US for banning absinthe. None of which changes the FTC's duty to not act in an arbitrary and capricious manner should it be demonstrated that currently permitted alcoholic beverages contain trace quantities of certain controversial substances.

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I would suggest something more along the lines of providing the FDA with the test results on a specific product that some intends to export to the US (preferably with a label that avoids any needlessly controversial words) along with the results on Charteuse, etc. The application would politely explain that the levels of various compounds are within the de minimus levels established by FDA precedent. It may be best first informally discuss the issue with FDA (with all test results).

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Yes. It would also be helpful if the thujone level (if any) found in Chartreuse is similar to that in well made modern absinthes. If not Chartreuse, then one or more other FDA-approved alcoholic beverage may contain thujone. Given the number of herbs that contain t-jone, I would guess (only a guess) that some botanical alcoholic beverages contain the stuff.

 

Of course, what makes this whole exercise absurd is that the FDA has no problem with selling AA extract as a nutritional supplement.

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You should test Absente as well. Even if southernwood doesn't contain any, if hyssop is used it coudl contain trace ammounts of thujone, meaning that a finished product that contains a species of Artemisia would not be thujone free. Although they probably already tested for that, you can at least see if they "cheated" or rounded down.

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I believe "nutritional supplements" fall into a different category. As with the rulling on ephedra, the FDA must show the supplement is dangerous before it can be banned. Where as I think food or drink is required to be relatively safe before it can be allowed. Of course the fact that the A.A. extract hasn't been banned helps support A.A. in drinks.

 

Quite frankly I would be surprised if the FDA even bothered to test many products to begin with or believed whatever the company sent them. I don't trust the companies tests as there are quite a few brands that claim to have x amount of thujone and end up having almost none. Other tests show that some companies (such as Fguy) should probably be labeling their product bitters.

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Just call FG "training absinthe",........what I called Herbsaint back inthe 90's.

 

I still have an unopened liter of Frankie G from the first run.

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FG has no fennel and according to Zman, who watched them making it, not a lot of wormwood.  In spite of the fact that I like it a lot, it's pretty close to being a pastis.

 

I'll do a side-by-side tasting of the F Guy and their "Pontarlier Anis a l'ancienne Sans Sucre" tonight. I believe they may be very much alike....

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They do remind a lot of each other.

Take the Pontarlier Anis and add just a liiiiiittle bit of wormwood and you have the François Guy. The "ancienne" Anis is an excellent anis aperitif, no doubt but it's very close to the F Guy. A little annoying.

Maybe I'm missing something here from having a few glasses of VS65 and also of a veeeeery good HG - but I don't think so.

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Not being what you would call an authority on the liqueur de la grande Chartreuse, I was wondering if anybody thinks that pinocamphone might be the major terpene in Chartreuse. Just a thought, because Hyssopus officinalis is probably the main flavouring ingredient.

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Haven't had a sip of Chartreuse in over a year... Maybe I should.

It's pretty weird with a "main flavouring ingredient" among 130 different herbs and spices. He he...

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I don't find anything too special with it, it smells too much of gin for my taste. I just recently had some, and used some of it to test if it really was naturally coloured (again, why does a company color with something that breaks down in light, then ship in a clear bottle).

I do wonder what quantities of these 130 herbs are in the drink, is a pinch of an herb put in and then added to the list?

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It seems to me that the lower proof they make it, the more sugar they add. I can't stand the sweetness in the 50% version let alone the even sweeter version. I'm hoping the original recipe is a bit more drinkable.

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I have the 55% standard green Chartreuse version. I bet the stronger one would be better. Of the two gins I've tried both have caused minor problems with my asthma so I have an aversion to even a small bit of pine flavour (even though Chartreuse doesn't give me the same problem).

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Chartreuse V.E.P. (aged for 12 years in oak) could be the most sublime alcoholic beverage ever distilled, except for all that damned sugar.

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This is certainly not making things any easier. If you put "absinthe" on the label, but proved it to be 100% thujone free it would pass FDA regulations. It would however, probably not pass Customs regulation...

 

 

I was at the liquor store the other day and looked closely at the label of Versinthe's U.S. version. It uses the word absinthe in quotes.

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I may be wrong here, as I usually am, but how does showing that Chartreuse contains thujone turn it into a banned substance?

 

I thought the ban was on using A.A. as a 'food additive' or some such. Meaning that if it gets tj's from some other source (such as sage) it doesn't automatically get banned.

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It's also naturally occuring in AA.

 

 

[Title 21, Volume 3]

[Revised as of April 1, 2004]

[CITE: 21CFR172.510]

 

 

TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS

CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBCHAPTER B - FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION (CONTINUED)

PART 172 -- FOOD ADDITIVES PERMITTED FOR DIRECT ADDITION TO FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION

Subpart F -- Flavoring Agents and Related Substances

Sec. 172.510 Natural flavoring substances and natural substances used in conjunction with flavors.

 

It is a natural food additive

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Good points.  I know that they require a sample and a lab analysis provided by the manufacturer.  I assume that in terms of thujone they use "the method (or, in other than alcoholic beverages, a suitable adaptation thereof) in section 9.129 of the 'Official Methods of Analysis of the Association of Official Analytical Chemists, 13th Ed. (1980).' "

 

Wormwood Society will be setting up its labs soon.  We got us a old, used GC unit for about tree-senny-fie.

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe the FDA allows 'secret recipes' on anything. It's fine for Coke and the monks to not give out the recipes to the masses, but I gotta believe the FDA requires full disclosure if you want it sold here.

 

In other words, the FDA knows damn well what is, and isn't, in Chatreuse.

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