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#901 Ambear

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:15 AM

I suppose there's some obvious confusion since the site does in fact provide ratings, but I don't think that's at all what Miguel or Absomphe was trying to say, FPB.

I'd say the majority of people buy and discuss MOL, but I don't often see people chatting about the WW as much, and I regularly see people admitting to preferring the WW. It just doesn't get as much discussion, and therefore it's value or quality is underestimated. I don't think anyone was intending to dig on the validity of it's ranking in the reviews.
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#902 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:07 AM

The point of my post was to illustrate the frequent disparity between some people's perceptions and opinions, and reality (and not necessarily just Miguel's or Absomphe's, or even just this subject).

I'd say the majority of people buy and discuss MOL, but I don't often see people chatting about the WW as much, and I regularly see people admitting to preferring the WW. It just doesn't get as much discussion, and therefore it's value or quality is underestimated.

My emphasis added.

This confuses me. And my perception is that there is plenty of positive conversation about Walton Waters, just as you state in the bolded passage. I don't have time to go through all the posts on this site, but I can tell you that there are 2 specific threads about MoL, with 29 replies and 3076 total views. WW has 1 specific thread with 30 replies and 3723 views. I don't see it as getting any lack of attention. Again, that reality thing.

There is, in my opinion, a certain "wow" factor to the MoL that unfortunately doesn't quite apply to the WW (since it is "only" just a really great conventional expression). I think it might be the intensity of reaction to the MoL and not the amount of feedback that has some thinking it gets inordinately more attention.

I love WW, and I don't think it is underrated. Under-appreciated, subordinated, lost in the shuffle, under-discussed, forgotten about, overlooked, MIA?... maybe, but I don't see it that way.

I suppose there's some obvious confusion since the site does in fact provide ratings, but I don't think that's at all what Miguel or Absomphe was trying to say, FPB.


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#903 Ambear

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 10:16 AM

I don't know about disparity, obviously the ratings are close and there may or may not be relatively equal discussion over the forum, but it seems as though there's been a bit more talk recently about the MOL than the WW. Granted, not everyone talks about EVERY absinthe purchase they make, but it seems that recently there are a number of people grabbing MOL, talking about drinking it in the drinking thread, a couple of people showing their stash and having just the MOL, etc.

I'm willing to say that based off of the name, Meadow of Love is more marketable and if you're going to buy a single bottle of Delaware Phoenix's product, it might be a determining factor to making the purchase. I would probably do the same, had I not heard better things about Walton Waters in comparison.

Obviously there are a number of motivating factors when it comes to purchasing an absinthe. Based on the MOL having a slightly higher score, a couple of threads dedicated to it, and a few people on the forum having recently bought it and discussing it, versus the WW having a lower score and less recent discussion, which would you choose? For someone new to the game, or to someone who's never tried them before (like me, for example) it could be difficult to pick just one. Miguel and Abs seemed to mention that the WW is also very good (in an appropriate thread) and I think that can be helpful to someone who might be on the fence about choosing, as they are BOTH good picks, and they'll end up with a quality product either way.

I know, perhaps better than some who may not review absinthe, that it's possible to get an absinthe that you love, but have it score less than some other absinthes that you don't enjoy nearly as much. This is because the reviews tend to be more objective and and just because one isn't to my personal taste doesn't mean it's not a quality absinthe. A good example of this is how some people enjoy St. George because of it's flavor, but it couldn't possibly be a top-rated absinthe based off of the criteria. Once it comes to purchasing absinthe and enjoying the purchase, you can't quantify that with an objective review system. There are plenty of absinthes I would highly recommend to anyone looking to buy themselves a bottle, but if they wanted to know if it was one of the most highly rated? It's possible that it's not. Does that mean they shouldn't buy it? Of course not.

Bottom line, the ratings are a guide to what's a quality product or not, but until you start actually tasting and comparing absinthes, you're mostly just making sure you don't accidentally blow your money on a KoS. There's nothing wrong with that, but I find personal experience and someone saying "I also really enjoyed the WW and I think it's (my wording, to avoid confusion) underestimated" helps add a few more pieces to the puzzle of what I should purchase.
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#904 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

All excellent points. I only want to reinforce one thing. And that is:

Don't get too hung up on scores(everyone).

They're only a guide, and any reviewers best effort on any given day to quantify, within our system, how well a particular absinthe stacks up against a standard. As far as I know all the reviewers here are human, so it's possible they could see a particular absinthe somewhat differently on another day.

Of course it's pretty obvious that most would want to avoid absinthes that score very low (under 3, especially), but as Ambear points out, when it comes to things within a narrow range, it is the individual character, not the point score that will most determine how well you like it.

Here's how Total Scores in our system are affected by a 1 point move in any score in the individual criteria:

Appearance 0.2
Louche 0.2
Aroma 0.2
Flavor And Mouthfeel 0.2
Finish 0.1
Overall impression 0.2

Because of the ways these combine, and because these changes by category are rounded, changes like 0.3 are possible (with certain combinations). But the real point I'm trying to make is that within 3 to 5 tenths of each other, you may find absinthes that are equally enjoyable to you.

Because of my full time work of wholesale wine distribution, I see every day the negative effects of wine ratings taken to seriously or to the extreme. I really enjoy reviewing here, but every time I post one, I pray I'm not helping to lay the groundwork for that eventuality in this world.
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#905 Père Ubu

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 03:27 PM

Y'all type too much. :)

#906 Evan Camomile

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 04:34 PM

Nice Miguel.

MoL and WW both seem to be damn fine absinthes. I can't wait to try them and the forthcoming Blues Cat from Delaware Phoenix.

As for the ratings, it is easy to get hung up on them, as well as the new edits to the criteria. But they serve their main purpose well, both in the past and the present; to keep people from buying overpriced and hyped up crapsinthe.

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#907 Absomphe

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

the forthcoming Blues Cat from Delaware Phoenix.


I'd be willing to wager the farm (admittedly a glib statement, since I don't have title to one) that this absinthe will not be perceived by anyone as underrated or under-discussed, once it's released.

Yes, I'm Krinkles the Clown on an absinthe a beer bender.

You got a problem with that?


#908 Père Ubu

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 05:27 PM

It was blessed by the Pope himself. :)

#909 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 07:40 PM

Y'all type too much. :)


We just do it in less posts. ;)
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#910 LeRoy

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:30 PM

:laugh:

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#911 Père Ubu

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:00 AM

You flunked Post Padding 101, by Dr. Absomphe, MSA.

#912 Absomphe

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:50 AM

We just do it in fewer posts. ;)


Fixed just to make Miguel feel better about always being LAGNed. :laugh:

Yes, I'm Krinkles the Clown on an absinthe a beer bender.

You got a problem with that?


#913 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:35 AM

Just call me fingerwhippingboy.
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#914 Absomphe

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

I like it, even if it is TooManyLetterz™. :thumbup:

Yes, I'm Krinkles the Clown on an absinthe a beer bender.

You got a problem with that?


#915 Songcatcher

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 05:26 PM

First glass of Meadow of Love is pretty darn tasty. Nice tongue numbing. Hints of WW with a little sumpin Xtra. Fine stuff indeed.

The room it smelled heavy of drinkin',  

and the sad silent song, made the hour twice as long,

as I waited for that sun to go sinkin'.


#916 billnchristy

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 04:05 PM

This MoL sure is rounding out nicely.

Still think I should've gotten WW though, I prefer the more traditional flavor in this case.

#917 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:24 PM

Everyone should try them both. They both rock. You are allowed to like them both. I have them rated the same, however with different criteria scores getting there.
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#918 Père Ubu

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:08 PM

"

#919 fingerpickinblue

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:47 PM

Tasting some WW as I surf the threads. I understand why both DPs made my most recent top ten list.
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#920 Scott M.

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:43 AM

The latest batch of MOL ( 12-1) is very good, yet quite a bit different than in the past. It's a different wormwood,
which is more forward than the previous batches I've tried, and the violet is clearer and stronger as well.
Though a bit different than previous versions, it is still delicious.
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#921 greytail

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:01 PM

I have some from 12-1 and 11-8 of the MoL for comparison. I don't detect as vast a difference as you do. Do you have it on Cheryl's word that a different wormwood was used? If indeed, was it from a different supplier? I know that she gets some of her herbs from Kirk.

Edited by greytail, 05 April 2012 - 04:03 PM.

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#922 OMG_Bill

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:53 PM

That's the cool thing about plants, They aren't as exact as we'd like. Herb bill will make every batch of absinthe a bit different.

I say, buy a bottle from each batch and do side by side tastings. Makes for a fun evening. :)
Some folks may cringe each time I use the term "Booze" regarding these high quality drinks.
I mean no offense. There are bottles of extraordinary booze out there. I've tasted a few. Relax.

#923 Songcatcher

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:03 PM

I have the 12-1 also and it is mighty tasty. Not dissapointed in the least bit :cheerz:

The room it smelled heavy of drinkin',  

and the sad silent song, made the hour twice as long,

as I waited for that sun to go sinkin'.


#924 greytail

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:11 AM

Both are indeed superb to me as is the WW.
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#925 Scott M.

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:22 AM

I just had a glass of MOL 12-3, her latest batch. Damn. It's really good stuff, and a perfect example of how small changes in batches can be compared/appreciated, both for simple enjoyment, and as a way of learning and developing one's palate.

Edited by Scott M., 17 April 2012 - 10:23 AM.

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#926 Jay

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:31 PM

I have some from 12-1 and 11-8 of the MoL for comparison. I don't detect as vast a difference as you do. Do you have it on Cheryl's word that a different wormwood was used? If indeed, was it from a different supplier? I know that she gets some of her herbs from Kirk.

Chalk me up as another who has detected a noticeable change in the flavor of both the WW (12-2 batch) and the MoL (12-1 batch). This would be my, err, fourth or fifth time of buying them as a pair over the past few years, and this is the first time that I (and my girlfriend) noticed a difference.

We had originally chalked it up to a change in Cheryl's still and some adjustments to distilling significantly more per batch, but if she changed wormwood suppliers, that also makes sense, as the wormwood is more pronounced in both. These two can definitely take a little more watering than previous batches, and I'm all for stretching the absinthe a little further, ha! :cheers:

#927 billnchristy

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:59 PM

I'm glad others are verifying what I thought was the case.

I was trying to drink MoL as others had in the past and just getting killed by how strong and overpowering it was. Now that there is verification that it is indeed stronger I don't feel as if I was out in left field so much.

(I too have 12-1)

:cheers:

#928 greytail

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 04:12 PM

Hmm. I think u guys are nuts :laugh:
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#929 Scott M.

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 04:45 PM

There's no denying I'm nuts. Seriously though, grab a bottle of 12-3. You won't regret it.
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#930 greytail

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:30 PM

I will be soon. Was holding out to see if the blues cat was coming out soon.

Edited by greytail, 17 April 2012 - 05:31 PM.

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