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Absinthe Ben

The Rebirth of Alandia

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That being said, I dislike the taste of anise immensely, and the sugar and water ratio would probably make most of you gag in disgust ( 5:1, 1-3 cubes), but the big thing? I don't care. I love that mix, and for me its more than suitable.

 

It's also 100% traditional and the way I drink absinthe. Pernod Fils recommended on their label a ratio of 5:1 and if you look at the ad photos and posters of the time, those cubes were huge.

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Most of you are not the target audience. If you sit on a bottle for 6 months to a year, You're doing a much bigger disservice to the industry and will help keep it in its nigh unreachable place, and with some of the talk around forums such as these, it truly makes me wonder if some detractors and critics aren't just complaining so they can be part of some imagined secret club of spirit elites. Sorry, but that's how its come off to an outsider looking in. If you really want to hurt the industry you claim to support, keep it up, because you're doing a wonderful job at keeping it out of the hands of the public when you only ever seem to criticize the places that are taking steps to better disperse the lovely liquid.

 

You do realize that they said the exact same thing about craft beer when it started to get hot, and the squares started paying attention to the segment?

 

Go to your liquor store, check how much more it is for a six of Bud or Miller, and then walk over to the craft beer section, and have a look at how many six packs there are that are north of $10. Basically twice the price. No secret handshakes needed, and craft breweries are almost universally growing even with the sad state of the economy.

 

There's no secret club. Real live herbs cost money. And economies of scale are real.

 

Besides, you just told us that you dilute your absinthe at a 5 to 1 ratio. Are you doing the same thing with Kentucky Gentleman? No? Ok, now do the math.

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I am always surprised by how much sweeter a tooth the pre-banners had for their absinthe. I'm sure I'm bordering on derailing this though, so I'll save further comment for another thread. ;)

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Most of you are not the target audience. If you sit on a bottle for 6 months to a year, You're doing a much bigger disservice to the industry and will help keep it in its nigh unreachable place,

You might want to read the TARN study. Absintheurs like us buy much more absinthe than the normal spirits drinker.

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Nah, derailing is when we start talking about Spanish wines. I'm a big fan of Muga, though I can't afford his Gran Reserva very often. The Torres Celeste crianza is really good for about $20US, too, and I love love love Venta la Ossa.

 

One of the wine educators here likes to say "If you're looking for elegance and complexity, drink French. If you're looking for passion, drink Spanish."

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Then it comes back to the second part- You missed the point. They make grape juice from the same vines as wine though. In st. augustine, FL when I was younger my family went to a winery(http://www.sansebastianwinery.com/), where there was a tasting, and they sold what? Grape Juice made from wine grapes. Right in the lobby, in a refrigerated drink cabinet. Just because you're not familiar with it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Lighten up, you just got here. Please go tell us about yourself in the intro thread.

 

Well said.

 

It's no fair, though, I never get to be in any secret clubs.

 

2 B 1 ask 1. :euro:

 

After living in Spain for 2 years, tis tough for me to find other wines I appreciate more than good Spanish stuff.

 

Calimocho aint bad either.

Thanks, I was just going to ask you for that name again.

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Speaking of which, I had some last night for the first time in a long, long time. I even used a Spanish wine too. I hadn't tried the wine before, and it was unusually tart for my preference, so naturally I added black bubbly sugar. I liked it. :cheerz:

 

 

 

We officially derailed yet, or is it time I whipped out a phallus joke?

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Most of you are not the target audience. If you sit on a bottle for 6 months to a year, You're doing a much bigger disservice to the industry and will help keep it in its nigh unreachable place, and with some of the talk around forums such as these, it truly makes me wonder if some detractors and critics aren't just complaining so they can be part of some imagined secret club of spirit elites. Sorry, but that's how its come off to an outsider looking in. If you really want to hurt the industry you claim to support, keep it up, because you're doing a wonderful job at keeping it out of the hands of the public when you only ever seem to criticize the places that are taking steps to better disperse the lovely liquid.

 

You do realize that they said the exact same thing about craft beer when it started to get hot, and the squares started paying attention to the segment?

 

Go to your liquor store, check how much more it is for a six of Bud or Miller, and then walk over to the craft beer section, and have a look at how many six packs there are that are north of $10. Basically twice the price. No secret handshakes needed, and craft breweries are almost universally growing even with the sad state of the economy.

 

There's no secret club. Real live herbs cost money. And economies of scale are real.

 

Besides, you just told us that you dilute your absinthe at a 5 to 1 ratio. Are you doing the same thing with Kentucky Gentleman? No? Ok, now do the math.

 

As for craft beer, I'm not actively involved with discussions anywhere other than in person, so I can't really say anything having to do with the communities that have sprung up around them. I'll admit I would probably act like a snob if bubba tells me how such-and-such craft beer is worse than his favorite miller or bud product, and I know the hypocrite I'm making myself out to be, but I would like to posit that not all of the rumors of southerners are untrue, matters of taste always being a good one. I've never ran into someone making it out like they were better for having tried more craft brews, and in my area the market has, like you said, taken off quite considerably, but there was never any active talking down I've ever heard of like so many conversations I've heard of just bashing such and such brands that were made authentically. As for the price, I'm not sure what brands you're buying, but most of the 6 pack crafts are well below the $10 line, but that may just be my area. That being said, I'd much rather take the hit in the wallet when it comes to beer than things like absinthe, but until the absinthe market takes off ( if even as a fraction of the craft market), I'm stuck with either making it an occasion by ordering from LdF or a.fm.

 

And by the by, I am actually doing exactly that with kentucky gent, or 15 bucks you get a handle of it. You're either really broke or about to be when decide to purchase such a fine " product". Not entirely sure you can say definitively " If you drink this straight, you won't go blind."

 

Most of you are not the target audience. If you sit on a bottle for 6 months to a year, You're doing a much bigger disservice to the industry and will help keep it in its nigh unreachable place,

You might want to read the TARN study. Absintheurs like us buy much more absinthe than the normal spirits drinker.

 

 

I did see the study, but a question came up in my mind in that- Were bottle sizes taken into account? A fifth of absinthe is bound to go much quicker than a handle of vodka, when put in the same drinking environments. Other than that, I can see what you mean, I actually found that after I posted originally, and found it interesting. And while that's good news that someone's buying, its not exactly where the distributors would want it I'm sure- Making it mainstream is surely the target, which means if we want to help out we should have absinthe get-togethers with the lay folk. That's the story of how I got a friend to try lucid, I got $15 or so and with my friend put it towards a bottle. His Girlfriend, room mate, and room mate's girlfriend all got to try it. Good Times.

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Making it mainstream is surely the target, which means if we want to help out we should have absinthe get-togethers with the lay folk.

You REALLY need to read around the site. We do absinthe tastings, get-togethers, seminars, events, podcasts interviews, television spots, etc. ALL THE TIME. All on our own time, and our own buck.

 

Is there anything else you'd like us to be doing?

 

Were bottle sizes taken into account?
Well, given the fact that the most common size of spirits bottle sold and bought in the US is a 750ml, I'm sure it's easy to extrapolate. Even so, the numbers are so dramatically different, it still shows the same evidence.

 

P.S. - you still need to introduce yourself. ;)

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I'll admit I would probably act like a snob if bubba tells me how such-and-such craft beer is worse than his favorite miller or bud product, and I know the hypocrite I'm making myself out to be, but I would like to posit that not all of the rumors of southerners are untrue, matters of taste always being a good one.

Craft beer is taking off like mad here in Alabama. Absinthe, not so much. But then again it's not readily available, and that mostly has to do with the structure of alcohol laws in this state, something I've lamented on this website numerous times and won't detail again.

 

but there was never any active talking down I've ever heard of like so many conversations I've heard of just bashing such and such brands that were made authentically.

Even here in Alabama, most conversations about macrobrews amongst craft brew enthusiasts that I see/ hear/ take part in are dismissive and contemptuous. Some people say "I'd rather have Bud than nothing," but most say, "If I can't have what I enjoy I'll have nothing." That's how I feel about things like booze that are luxuries. If I don't like it I don't want it. That goes for bad beer, bad absinthe, bad whisk(e)y, bad gin, and so on.

 

As for the price, I'm not sure what brands you're buying, but most of the 6 pack crafts are well below the $10 line, but that may just be my area.

Almost everything even worth drinking is at least $8 a 6-pack here, and most of the really good brands are between $10 and $17 for a 4-pack. Some are sold in individual 12-oz bottles at $5 or more apiece.

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That being said, I'd much rather take the hit in the wallet when it comes to beer than things like absinthe, but until the absinthe market takes off ( if even as a fraction of the craft market), I'm stuck with either making it an occasion by ordering from LdF or a.fm.

 

I'm not sure you understand what you're saying. Expressed as a percentage, do you know how much the total US beer market is taken up by craft beer? After a decade or so of what most would call explosive growth, craft beer is a whopping 4% of the total beer market. That's it.

 

The reason that you cats aren't seeing absinthe, or most craft distilled spirits for that matter, is distribution. Diageo and Brown Forman have the distributors in their back pockets. It was the same thing with craft beer. The big distributors were owned (metaphorically) by Coors/Miller/Bud. So craft brewers couldn't get their phone calls returned for years. When the US beer market flattened out starting about a decade ago, distributors could no longer increase their sales with Bud etc. So they finally figured out that they make more money by pushing a $10 six of beer as opposed to a $4 six of beer. What has happened? Craft beer is really starting to gain ground. Not because their beer is terrific, or because consumers are more aware of craft beer (although this helps), but simply because the distributors have stopped fighting craft brewers, and have started to push them.

 

It's like what Noel Gallagher from Oasis said: you make the big numbers when the squares catch on. Well, you have to give the squares the chance to try craft beer. Right now the dirty pool that is the distribution game limits the squares' access to craft beer/spirits.

 

When the big distributors decide that it's better to take their time and push a craft distillery because they get a couple bucks more per bottle in the long run, you'll see stuff like Voyager Gin down in Alabama. Until then, you'll see the same swill for many moons to come.

 

Eventually, the same thing that happened with craft beer will happen to crafted spirits, as well as absinthe. Particularly when gas prices go back up. Even the very dumbest distributor has figured out that when you ship beer over spirits, you're basically shipping water instead of profit. Not a good situation when gas is $4+ per gallon.

 

It just takes time. Absinthe has been legal for about 15 minutes. Patience.

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Making it mainstream is surely the target, which means if we want to help out we should have absinthe get-togethers with the lay folk.

You REALLY need to read around the site. We do absinthe tastings, get-togethers, seminars, events, podcasts interviews, television spots, etc. ALL THE TIME.

 

Is there anything else you'd like us to be doing?

 

Were bottle sizes taken into account?
Well, given the fact that the most common size of spirits bottle sold and bought in the US is a 750ml, I'm sure it's easy to extrapolate. Even so, the numbers are so dramatically different, it still shows the same evidence.

 

P.S. - you still need to introduce yourself. ;)

 

Heh, I wasn't saying folks weren't doing these sort of things, its just that advertising around the familiar folks just seems more common. I think the wine library video on was a great cross-community sort of thing. The fact that absinthe has had a less than illustrious existence due to bad press will always be a stumbling block, but I'm glad to see most of the myths and falsities have been dispelled and a lot of damage control been done. I wasn't criticizing, it just seems like most of this info isn't as accessible to the uninitiated is all. Unfortunately we've gotta bring it to them in their areas of movement/interest. And outside of curiosity articles and occasional study reports, there just doesn't seem to be talk in the right places. But then again, outside of specialty sites, where would it be?

 

Thanks for the clarification on bottle sizes and sales, much appreciated. Didn't know that about the 750ml, have to save that bit of information in the noggin.

 

Do I hafta introduce myself? I normally duck outta that aspect of joining forums, just always struck me as something for folks new to the idea of discussion communities.

 

Craft beer is taking off like mad here in Alabama. Absinthe, not so much. But then again it's not readily available, and that mostly has to do with the structure of alcohol laws in this state, something I've lamented on this website numerous times and won't detail again.

 

I feel you, same here with the blue laws. Need to hop on over state lines some day and grab a few bottles. A local liquor store has an alright selection for being such a difficult thing. Nothing major, lucid, Kübler, and clandestine, but hey, its a step. I'm sure something in atlanta would have a much better selection.

 

Even here in Alabama, most conversations about macrobrews amongst craft brew enthusiasts that I see/ hear/ take part in are dismissive and contemptuous. Some people say "I'd rather have Bud than nothing," but most say, "If I can't have what I enjoy I'll have nothing." That's how I feel about things like booze that are luxuries. If I don't like it I don't want it. That goes for bad beer, bad absinthe, bad whisk(e)y, bad gin, and so on.

 

Mostly, the only folks I've ever heard ever single out craft beers as " bad" were not of any matter of concern to me ( in truth, I could only think of one person, who I had known in high school, and was a first rate moron). The second argument is a lot more common, and I think it could be changed easily if folks just tasted around.

 

Almost everything even worth drinking is at least $8 a 6-pack here, and most of the really good brands are between $10 and $17 for a 4-pack. Some are sold in individual 12-oz bottles at $5 or more apiece.

 

Yeesh, I thought the 18 or so bucks for a 12 pack of Newcastle was a bit much. I'm just gassed they finally started shipping yuengling to my state. I've seen some craft beers get that high for singles, but they were in the minority. Sorry to hear they're so high, but if its any consolation, I now really want to try some new beers, but I'm broke at the moment, so, touche' sir.

 

I'm not sure you understand what you're saying. Expressed as a percentage, do you know how much the total US beer market is taken up by craft beer? After a decade or so of what most would call explosive growth, craft beer is a whopping 4% of the total beer market. That's it.

 

The reason that you cats aren't seeing absinthe, or most craft distilled spirits for that matter, is distribution. Diageo and Brown Forman have the distributors in their back pockets. It was the same thing with craft beer. The big distributors were owned (metaphorically) by Coors/Miller/Bud. So craft brewers couldn't get their phone calls returned for years. When the US beer market flattened out starting about a decade ago, distributors could no longer increase their sales with Bud etc. So they finally figured out that they make more money by pushing a $10 six of beer as opposed to a $4 six of beer. What has happened? Craft beer is really starting to gain ground. Not because their beer is terrific, or because consumers are more aware of craft beer (although this helps), but simply because the distributors have stopped fighting craft brewers, and have started to push them.

 

It's like what Noel Gallagher from Oasis said: you make the big numbers when the squares catch on. Well, you have to give the squares the chance to try craft beer. Right now the dirty pool that is the distribution game limits the squares' access to craft beer/spirits.

 

When the big distributors decide that it's better to take their time and push a craft distillery because they get a couple bucks more per bottle in the long run, you'll see stuff like Voyager Gin down in Alabama. Until then, you'll see the same swill for many moons to come.

 

Eventually, the same thing that happened with craft beer will happen to crafted spirits, as well as absinthe. Particularly when gas prices go back up. Even the very dumbest distributor has figured out that when you ship beer over spirits, you're basically shipping water instead of profit. Not a good situation when gas is $4+ per gallon.

 

It just takes time. Absinthe has been legal for about 15 minutes. Patience.

 

Wow, I'm shocked craft beer is that small of a percentage, local grocers have them taking up almost half of the fun(read: beer) aisle. Then again, those are shared in part with the more " luxurious" beers like guiness, newcastle, stella, so on and so forth. And to be honest, I didn't realize there was such a monopoly with the distributors, I knew Diageo was a big one, but I didn't know it was such a closed market.

 

That being said, how long do you think it'll take for the market to open up to absinthe like it did with craft beers? Here's hoping to sooner than later.

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Do I hafta introduce myself? I normally duck outta that aspect of joining forums, just always struck me as something for folks new to the idea of discussion communities.

Yeah. It's part of the rules. Everyone has to do it.

 

Yeesh, I thought the 18 or so bucks for a 12 pack of Newcastle was a bit much. I'm just gassed they finally started shipping yuengling to my state. I've seen some craft beers get that high for singles, but they were in the minority. Sorry to hear they're so high, but if its any consolation, I now really want to try some new beers, but I'm broke at the moment, so, touche' sir.

Wow, that's even behind my backward-ass state that just fixed a very flawed beer law (6% ABV limit was just increased to 13.9%). Even before the law change we had better stuff than Yuengling. We're still behind the states that have had great beer for a long time but we've got offerings by North Coast, Great Divide, Unibrou, etc. and lots of Belgians. I don't mind how much they cost. They're well worth it and it's nice to finally have them. We get Dogfish Head starting next year. :headbang:

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Do I hafta introduce myself? I normally duck outta that aspect of joining forums, just always struck me as something for folks new to the idea of discussion communities.

This isn't just a discussion community, it's an online board for members of a real organization. In real life, you probably wouldn't just pop into a conversation without introducing yourself. Just like in real life—where many of us here know each other already—we strongly prefer to know to whom we have the honor of extending our hospitality.

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Seriously Todd, I'm getting sick and tired of you talking so rationally. It's getting hard to keep up the image of being completely ignorant of facts. :tongue:

 

Heh. Just trying to help.

 

All my distribution theories have been borne out in the field. I have yet to walk out of a single restaurant or liquor store without placing at least one facing of our spirits. Not one. Even with the corporate places, I have been able to place spirits in their kitchen (and subsequently, their menus) when the backbar was bought and paid for by the megadistributors.

 

This bodes well for small distillers. And it's what bartenders and spirits shop owners want to push anyway. Who the heck takes pride in selling Grey Goose? No one. It's a commodity. On the other hand, spirits like Walton Waters have a backstory and a face. Especially in their homestate. Much easier to sell, given time.

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Do I hafta introduce myself? I normally duck outta that aspect of joining forums, just always struck me as something for folks new to the idea of discussion communities.

Yeah. It's part of the rules. Everyone has to do it.

 

Yeesh, I thought the 18 or so bucks for a 12 pack of Newcastle was a bit much. I'm just gassed they finally started shipping yuengling to my state. I've seen some craft beers get that high for singles, but they were in the minority. Sorry to hear they're so high, but if its any consolation, I now really want to try some new beers, but I'm broke at the moment, so, touche' sir.

Wow, that's even behind my backward-ass state that just fixed a very flawed beer law (6% ABV limit was just increased to 13.9%). Even before the law change we had better stuff than Yuengling. We're still behind the states that have had great beer for a long time but we've got offerings by North Coast, Great Divide, Unibrou, etc. and lots of Belgians. I don't mind how much they cost. They're well worth it and it's nice to finally have them. We get Dogfish Head starting next year. :headbang:

 

The Yueng thing was more with their distributing, they served it in florida and SC, but not here. It was weird, but thankfully we got that taken care of.

 

Do I hafta introduce myself? I normally duck outta that aspect of joining forums, just always struck me as something for folks new to the idea of discussion communities.

This isn't just a discussion community, it's an online board for members of a real organization. In real life, you probably wouldn't just pop into a conversation without introducing yourself. Just like in real life—where many of us here know each other already—we strongly prefer to know to whom we have the honor of extending our hospitality.

 

Fair enough, apologies, I didn't know of the extent folks knew each other. Thanks by the way for clarifying the way I prepared my absinthe wasn't as much of a debauchary as I'd been lead to believe. I've heard of folks using nothing but water and sometimes less than the 3:1 ratio. Not for me.

 

Here's the link-

http://wormwoodsociety.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5167

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When the big distributors decide that it's better to take their time and push a craft distillery because they get a couple bucks more per bottle in the long run, you'll see stuff like Voyager Gin down in Alabama.

 

I'm workin' on it!

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Do I hafta introduce myself? I normally duck outta that aspect of joining forums, just always struck me as something for folks new to the idea of discussion communities.

This isn't just a discussion community, it's an online board for members of a real organization. In real life, you probably wouldn't just pop into a conversation without introducing yourself. Just like in real life—where many of us here know each other already—we strongly prefer to know to whom we have the honor of extending our hospitality.

Also, I think one of the best aspects of the Wormwood Society has always been its encouragement of real-world events and gatherings for its members. You were asked to do an intro because everyone expected to start seeing you at parties. And in the early days of the society when absinthe had yet to made "legal", it was especially nice to know who was being invited into the community and to the parties, where people might bring their very best bottles to offer for everyone to taste. That basic feel continues. It's not the Wormwood Info Board, it's the Wormwood Society. Damn that sounds like a script for an ad. Don't worry, I'll be drunk soon.

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This bodes well for small distillers. And it's what bartenders and spirits shop owners want to push anyway. ... Much easier to sell, given time.

 

Knowledge among the consumer is important too. They have to know why they should pay twice the price or more.

 

And I think it's easier to promote a craft whiskey/gin/etc since there's plenty of people drinking those spirits already. Absinthe, people still think it tastes like black licorice, and if you've had one, you've had them all.

 

And for a bar that has a couple absinthes: St George and Lucid (or other brands), that they got when they thought they had to have absinthe but now don't sell very well, it's much harder to get them to add to their collection.

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I did see the study, but a question came up in my mind in that- Were bottle sizes taken into account? A fifth of absinthe is bound to go much quicker than a handle of vodka, when put in the same drinking environments.

 

A fifth of absinthe? Haven't seen one of those! But measure for measure, I'd say if anything absinthe would outlast other spirits due to it's inherent strength of both flavor and ABV. That you can get 20 glasses of absinthe out of a bottle was probably a contributing factor to all the old French winos getting the stuff banned in the first place, but I'll leave that for the historians to properly clarify. :cheers:

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A fifth of absinthe? Haven't seen one of those!

 

That might becoming from my horrible vernacular- When I say fifth I mean 750ml, if there was confusion caused by my wording, I apologize. I believe lucid, Kübler, and clandestine all come in those size bottles, and hopefully you have access to the brands.

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We get Dogfish Head starting next year. :headbang:

 

Awesome!

I still have to cross the border to get any.

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This bodes well for small distillers. And it's what bartenders and spirits shop owners want to push anyway. ... Much easier to sell, given time.

 

Knowledge among the consumer is important too. They have to know why they should pay twice the price or more.

 

And I think it's easier to promote a craft whiskey/gin/etc since there's plenty of people drinking those spirits already. Absinthe, people still think it tastes like black licorice, and if you've had one, you've had them all.

 

And for a bar that has a couple absinthes: St George and Lucid (or other brands), that they got when they thought they had to have absinthe but now don't sell very well, it's much harder to get them to add to their collection.

 

I cannot emphasize enough what great points you've made, and how you've illustrated how ignorance leads to a shrinking market. This explains perfectly, in only a few sentences, why we should be correcting and informing whenever possible.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta set some people straight on Twitter. ;)

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