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Perla or Concha = quality absinthe


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#1 Boggy

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 02:37 PM

RE: Jadedouard vs. Edouard.

One nice and generous forumite was kind to share with me some Edouard, so let's do the typical comparison and analyze thoroughly what we do see:

Jadedouard on the left, Edouard on the right. The depth of the colour is discernible even for the blind.

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One part of cold water is added, Jadedouard banding line is not as smooth and as tiny as Edouard's.

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Second part of water, in Edouard the line is slowly disappearing.

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1:4 ratio, the bubble on the edge of the liquid-an indication of quality, appears, but only in the case of Edouard, moreover, the tinge of Edouard is approaching green, whereas Jadedouard's tinge is getting gray and white.

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Have a look, Jadedouard is badiane milkshake thick akin, whereas Edouard presents with a meticulous transparency desired in an louched absinthe.

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Draw your conclusions.
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#2 Brian Robinson

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 03:08 PM

the bubble on the edge of the liquid-an indication of quality

Can you explain this a little bit further?
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#3 Wayek

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 03:11 PM

:huh: thats the first time I heard anything like that
by all means.... please
nasty prisms good sir

#4 Boggy

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 03:24 PM

the bubble on the edge of the liquid-an indication of quality

Can you explain this a little bit further?

Every spirit is more or less oily. It can be produced by chilling it in a fridge, adding water, etc. If the bubble appears on the edge and stays there for a while, it means the product meets the standards, has been carefully prepared and distilled. The appearance of a bubble on the surface indicates the quality.

The very first product that applied that method was tequila-if tequila doesn't produce a pearl or conch (bubble) on the surface in an agitated bottle or stirred in a glass, it indicates that it is mixto, so low-end tequila, tequila cortado. Similar thing should happen with vodka, which upon chilling thickens a bit and gets oily, viscous and finally when poured in a glass produces that aforementioned bubble. You can observe the bubble in fruit brandies as well.
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#5 Wayek

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 03:31 PM

Just wondering if this would apply to a whisky as well as a spirit

I dont know...I had a nip of Wisers last night which is fairly cheap and it had that little bubble you were talking about

but I wouldnt call Wisers a very high quality drink
nasty prisms good sir

#6 Brian Robinson

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 04:51 PM

Every spirit is more or less oily. It can be produced by chilling it in a fridge, adding water, etc. If the bubble appears on the edge and stays there for a while, it means the product meets the standards, has been carefully prepared and distilled. The appearance of a bubble on the surface indicates the quality.

So, you're saying only top quality absinthes will have those bubbles? And in order to qualify the standards, how should one go about producing said bubbles while preparing absinthe?
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#7 Wayek

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 06:09 PM

Yeah, I'm not really buying the whole bubbles = quality thing
nasty prisms good sir

#8 Brian Robinson

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 06:42 PM

I'm not saying I don't buy it, as it is a true issue with tequila. It doesn't necessarily denote bad quality more than it denotes a tequila that has been cut.

I'm just wondering how it can carry over to absinthe, especially one that has already been cut with water.
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#9 Wayek

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 07:10 PM

Well if the tequila thing backs it up then it could be true.

Maybe he means when it's neat?
nasty prisms good sir

#10 Brian Robinson

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 07:30 PM

But that's the problem. It wasn't neat when the pic was taken. And you can't necessarily make a corrolation between two different spirits with different ingredients.
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#11 Wayek

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 07:31 PM

:shock:
nasty prisms good sir

#12 Boggy

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 12:09 AM

But that's the problem. It wasn't neat when the pic was taken. And you can't necessarily make a corrolation between two different spirits with different ingredients.

Look at the first picture clearly, there is a bubble already in Edouard*. I have noticed it for the first time, previously wasn't paying attention to such minute details. Slivovitz produces a bubble just like vodka does=two different spirits with different ingredients, even their strength will vary en grosse, don't you agree?

*here is another of an absinthe producing a bubble as well:

Posted Image

edited for the factual representation, not just unsupported Boggy' mumbling :devil:
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#13 Brian Robinson

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 04:47 AM

So, what if I can show you the same bubbles in some REALLY crappy brands?
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#14 Boggy

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 05:15 AM

Then you are picky and biased, my friend, even though you have no other way to admit it is right for most of the spirits (cannot vouch for whiskeys, have none currently). What about the other observations-aren't they equally-valid or even much more than the bubble case?

Below is the example of Tokaji Aszu Palinka, distilled a year ago (yes, I was present during its production)-IMO, and it is just my opinion, it is very good as CO offerring, even though proofed to low strength. Would you then imply that it is CRAP? In Hungary, the "diluted" version is not that cheap, the one I am showing is slightly diluted (that was my request to the MD for that matter). Any more cases you wish to raise?

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#15 Jonathan D.

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 07:23 AM

How is he picky and biased to show other absinthe that has a bubble in it? I don't see how a certain oil content in an absinthe is necessarily going to make it taste good.

Here ya go, guess the brand:
Posted Image

#16 Boggy

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 07:51 AM

I am sorry but I have not got Jadedouard 2005 at hand to compare it with Jadedouard 2008, I have got just only Extrait d'absinthe Edouard Pernod. I am sure someone can conduct the comparison 'tween Jadedouards from different times.

If I wanted a blanche, I'd buy one.

That is a point, even in 2005, it looked just as a "verte" should.

Here ya go, guess the brand:

Too much fingerprints on the glass. Haven't seen the absinthe (if it is absinthe) neat, four layers of the louche indicate it might be fauxsinthe (artificial colouring implied), but how does it contribute to the debate? Jadedouard doesn't produce a bubble, so it is obvious Edouard is better, but there is no doubt about it. Or maybe anyone will raise a gauntlet that there IS modern absinthe that kicks the arse of pre-bans, the ones others should be judged to?

Łącka slivovitz produces a bubble, Monastyrka (blended slivo) doesn't, how many proofs a stubborn spirit drinker needs? Be faced up with it, your case is lost*.

*Still, since you are picky and snitty (even cocky I daresay) about the bubble, it is just one aspect, the others I have pointed clearly out you seem to approve then, so who wins?**

**Rhetorical question.
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#17 EdouardPerneau

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:02 AM

I think EddyP's point about Edouard from 3 years ago being richly colored, with no grassiness, and current Edouard being, well, not so richly colored, is a very valid point and one that, to me at least makes a difference in my enjoyment of the product. If I wanted a blanche, I'd buy one.


Exactly ! also modern producer are used to over fiter an absinthe(to make it more attractive because most of unfiltered absinthe got a deposit) that remove a lot of chlorophyle ... an in the same time taste
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#18 Brian Robinson

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:37 AM

Then you are picky and biased, my friend, even though you have no other way to admit it is right for most of the spirits

How am I being picky by showing you that you can't assign a standard from one spirit to another? I'd think that's being scientific and factual.

It seems to me that if you make that distinction without any evidence that it is indeed the same across categories shows you to be presumptuous.

You make a blanket statement that a concha in absinthe shows that absinthe to be of quality. But if I show you a concha in a brand known to be of low quality, then what does that do to your original supposition?
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#19 EdouardPerneau

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:44 AM

witch brand ?
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#20 Brian Robinson

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:47 AM

If I tell you, it would spoil all of the fun. :devil:
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#21 EdouardPerneau

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:48 AM

lucid ?
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#22 Boggy

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:54 AM

But you haven't.

What is more, why absinthe should be excluded from that bubble=quality proof when tequila, vodka, slivovitz, kirsch, calvados, what not are the perfect examples and ARE the evidence therefor? The majority of spirits (which, of course do not have much in common) do produce a bubble and it is just ONE of the many aspects that have been presented in comparison. It might be the weakest one, I presume, you are still lacking any verifications for the fact that what is tequila-applicable might be absinthe-applicable as well. I understand that particular issue has not been raised so far, but maybe it was due to the overlooking of that matter?

Thus, if you say that since Edouard produces a bubble, it means Edouard is of low quality, I understand someone might prefer Pernod fils, Duval-Dubied (or C.F. Berger) to Edouard for personal reasons, still these are pre-bans. The point drawn is: Jadedouard of 2005 (with its spectacular colour and highly-praised taste) was close to the original, was approximating its finesse and subtlety, yet Jadedouard 2008 is neither close by an inch to either Jadedouard 2005 or definitely Edouard Pernod. Can't you see it?

Bubble is one aspect, a tiny one, maybe you attack banding line, post louche thickness, don't know, take your picks. Still, the Panzerfaust is in my hands and you are defenseless.
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#23 Brian Robinson

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:04 AM

Defenseless? Why don't we ask Jonathan D. to reveal what brand was in his picture?

Or better yet, explain to me how Grande Absente, Deva, Libertine and Green Stromu all create perla? I just confirmed this. By your criteria, that would mean they are of good quality.

you are still lacking any verifications for the fact that what is tequila-applicable might be absinthe-applicable as well.

I think it should be the other way around. Why do you think it SHOULD be applicable to absinthe? Do you have any historical reference points as to when this criteria was used to judge an absinthe's quality?

They are different spirits. Not all spirits have the same qualities, as I'm sure you'd agree. Otherwise there would be one standardized test across all spirits to delineate quality.

Remember, oil content can be added in ways other than distillation. That's not a normal practice in tequila, but it certainly is in the absinthe world.
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#24 Boggy

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:19 AM

Defenseless? Why don't we ask Jonathan D. to reveal what brand was in his picture?

lucid ?

or worse?

Or better yet, explain to me how Grande Absente, Deva, Libertine and Green Stromu all create perla? I just confirmed this. By your criteria, that would mean they are of good quality.

No, it is your criteria, also where is the evidence for? I have given you enough of the products that do produce perla and you are still questioning them.


Why do you think it SHOULD be applicable to absinthe? Do you have any historical reference points as to when this criteria was used to judge an absinthe's quality?

Why not? As I said I have not found nothing as regards absinthe, yet I have found as you should have and others regarding other spirits. Henceforth, my question: "why absinthe should be excluded?"

They are different spirits. Not all spirits have the same qualities, as I'm sure you'd agree.

I am agreement for that, but I have pointed it out earlier-vodka is nothing like slivovitz, both produce a bubble, if they are properly made.

I am not accusing Jadedouard of being faulty made (I am even more than sure that in 2005 it was a really good extrait-haven't had the pleasure of tasting that year's batch, neither have I tasted the famous Distiller's Proof which was waxed upon rhapsodically by some of the forumites I have in high regard), yet ain't it really suspicious that I had 60ml of Jadedouard 2008 and 120ml of Pacifique and 60ml of Marteau and I have 5ml or less of that Pacifique sample left, 2/3 of Marteau sample left and almost 40-45ml of Jadedouard? Moreover, I drink Pacifique and Marteau for pleasure of sipping a nice extrait I wish to explore, whereas I reach for Jadedouard to confirm this or that suspicion-only for the research and comparison purposes, in fact. And it is reflected in all three reviews of these products.
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#25 Jonathan D.

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:20 AM

For one thing the ABV of most absinthe is much higher than other spirits, as well as varying greatly from one absinthe to the next. To suggest that surface bubble formation is going to be a reliably consistent way to judge the quality of an absinthe, to put it conservatively, is not something that has even been close to established.

As to why you drink more Pacifique or Marteau than Jade Edouard, no it "ain't really suspicious" if you like them more. You liking or not liking something is not indicative of anything other than your own opinion.

#26 Boggy

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:23 AM

Actually, properly made slivovitz is in the range of 60-80%, so much closer to absinthe, in the terms of ABV, than anything else.

As to why you drink more Pacifique or Marteau than Jade Edouard, no it "ain't really suspicious"

In reality, it is. The current Jadedoaurd is being promoted as "Absinthe Edouard is absolutely correct to the original, from its delicate tint, to its refined texture and delightfully aromatic finish." The site is known as "http://www.bestabsinthe.com/", maybe you have another understanding of the word "best" but to me it means: the finest out there, much better than anything that has ever been made".

Pacifique, on the other hand, does not advocate such 100% sure, it humbly states: "For those of you who are interested, our Absinthe Pacifique has been made in exact accordance with an 1855 French recipe, using only organically-grown botanicals. Much of the Grande wormwood and Roman wormwood used was grown in our own herb garden." and thus far remains the perfect representation of what some of us know as Montpellier style, without any overestimated claims or lack of modesty in saying: "fuck the rest, I am best!".

As regards Marteau: "MARTEAU is the finest 19th Century style, fully authentic absinthe to be made and sold in the United States since 1912, and now you can savor this amazing historic experience." Are these words saying it is better than Pernod fils or Edouard or whatever of the Belle Epoque? It clearly says it is following the 19th century absinthe style, no more no less.

See the difference?
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#27 Brian Robinson

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:25 AM

No, it is your criteria, also where is the evidence for? I have given you enough of the products that do produce perla and you are still questioning them.

I'm not questioning whether some high quality absinthes produce perla. I'm stating that some low quality ones do too, which means you can't use perla as an indicator for quality in absinthe.

If you like, I can post pictures of the four brands mentioned above, but I'd think that my word is good enough to start with.
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#28 Jonathan D.

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:25 AM

I certainly don't profess to know anything about slivovitz, but it's not absinthe, I know that much.

#29 EdouardPerneau

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:32 AM

perhaps this should applies the quality of the alcohol base since Ted base that smell more like moonshine might be why edouard don't bubble
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#30 Phoenix

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:35 AM

I doubt that Ed. Brian already posted about Grande Absente, Deva, Libertine and Green Stromu all having the bubble.

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