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Paul Nathan does it again!

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Little after noon here, in the off-center cultural center of the universe, but I share your sentiments exactly Bill. :cheers:

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It was noon here in the Center of the Absinthe Universe when I started reading, and there are way too many words here to bother with. I don't have all day.

 

If you just want to say mean things about other people's creations than at least be mindful of the fact that this is a public forum and you might actually hurt someone's feelings some time. Not me, and not this time, but some time.

 

It hurts my feelings when I spend literally thousands of unsponsored hours over five years, to build something like WS, and then someone blithely publishes superficially-researched and erroneous entertainment, confusing the public even more. When I was little and someone hurt my feelings, I'd pout. Now, I just call them on their bullshit in as frank a manner as I can. I'm offended by the cavalier contempt with which you regard the notion of truth, by your own admission. My intelligence, as well as that of other readers here, is insulted by transparent spin.

 

If you're going to bill yourself as an absinthe educator, don't be indignant when it's pointed out that you're misinforming the public. You've taken on a responsibility, Paul, please be so respectful as to discharge it responsibly.

 

Dig deeper, research more thoroughly. Don't just skim a few sites, question the credentials of marketers and brand owners, and go to the source material: 19th century writings, distilling treatises, pre-ban samples, thousands of pieces of art, modern scientific studies. There's a mountain of evidence as to what absinthe is, it's not as obscure as you seem to think.

 

As I said in my longer response earlier, the points we have contentions on are not simply opinions, they're demonstrable facts:

 

• The term "cocktail" (which refers to a specific type of mixed drink, as distinct from a crusta, flip, fizz, highball, etc.) was in print in 1803, the year Antoine Peychaud was born. It was defined in print in 1806. Peychaud opened his apothecary in 1838.

 

• Thujone has no recreational value, is not a hallucinogen or euphoric, it's a toxin. It has not been detected in pre-ban or pre-ban style absinthes in excess of 60ppm, well below the observable effects threshold. (no, thujone does not degrade over time)

 

• There is absolutely no evidence that any beverage sold as absinthe prior to 1915 was lacking a substantially anise-forward flavor. The reason pastis tastes the way it does is because it was designed as an absinthe substitute.

 

Absinthe—like anis, anisette, ouzo, raki, and arak—is an anise spirit. The ONLY parties who have suggested otherwise are modern producers and marketers who have also demonstrated a desire to appeal to sensationalism and to tap the trend, disregarding every fact to the contrary and aggressively undermining the attempts of others, such as myself, Ted Breaux and David Nathan-Maister, to educate the masses.

 

• Properly flavored absinthe mixes wonderfully, in the hands of someone willing to read and learn. Hundreds of classic era cocktails—many of them quite good—call for absinthe. There are over 100 in The Savoy Cocktail Book and nearly as many in The Old Waldorf-Astoria Bar Book.

 

Paul, you are a promoter. It's what you do. You're a trade-show magician and are saturated with the corporate mentality. There's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, you've become so saturated with marketing values that you appear to have forgotten that there really is such a thing as the truth, and such a thing as a right way and a wrong way to do some things.

 

Putting enough spin on something so as to make it more convincing to more people does not make it true, it just makes it sell.

 

What your sponsors seem to have not figured out is that real absinthe, along with its real story, sells just fine and is no more difficult to produce than the what ill-advised producers come up with based on what some focus group "likes."

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welcome01.jpg

 

Hi Paul. As this seems to be serving as your introduction, I thought I'd welcome you. You're in Germany? I love Germany. I had my first glass of absinthe in Berlin, in a little basement bar a few blocks from the Absinth Depot. Somehow I managed to have a glass of moderately good absinthe, served without flames or other gimmicks, and I fell in love with the drink. No one told me I was going to hallucinate, or that it would get me fucked up etc.

In the six years since, I've had the pleasure of sampling nearly thirty brands (nothing compared to Brian or GStone I know, but still). Only one of them was a Czech brand, bought in Prague. It tasted disgusting and was served to me with disgust as I was a tourist, and this was clearly a tourist's drink. The bartender knew what she was serving me was shit.

To my mind a quality product will sell itself, as long as it is only asked to be what it is. Absinthe is delicious if you know to expect an anise forward and slightly (but not unpleasantly) bitter liquor. If everyone agrees that this is what it is then we're all set. But when the bartender thinks absinthe is shit and only gullible fools are going to drink it, we have a breakdown. Case in point: the one bar near me that stocks absinthe has Lucid, Pernod, and Grande Absinthe. I would rate them in that order as far as quality goes, with GA trailing far behind the mediocre Pernod. Yet the bartender tells me "Grande is the best by far". Why? Because the bottle told him so? If they served LTV (with it's impressive hype machine) no doubt that would supplant GA in his mind. He had no frame of reference, where I do. But he was the bartender and I was the fool. Does everyone have the right to an opinion? Perhaps, but I firmly believe one should only voice an informed opinion. Do you see what I mean?

We need clear, consistent education on what absinthe traditionally has been, what is tastes like, and how it is served. I would love it if you would join us in this.

 

And now a thought to the WS membership at large:

EVERYTHING written here is available for public consumption. If you dislike someone that's fine, but to mention them by name and hurl insults is a poor way to represent this organization. We're too high profile for it, and have been for longer than I've been a member. Just look at who has joined us in the last month and realize we are in the midst of a dramatic change in zeitgeist. I for one am extremely excited by the possibilities. :cheers:

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I believe Paul has what it takes to educate and still entertain. His energy and enthusiasm could be contagious.

Unfortunately, he hasn't, or declines to do his homework on absinthe history, myths and hype. It seems that he has the means to procure quality absinthe but his sponsors make him a puppet. JMO from what I've read.

Granted, it takes alot of $$ to travel around the world doing tricks and making youtube videos and I'd rather use other peoples money as well. Unfortunately, using other peoples money often has strings attached making him a puppet to the machine.

 

I'm a family man with two grown children with families of their own and we always advise quality over crap.

They constantly ask my opinion on things to buy. They get my opinion but atleast they ask for it. What they do from that point is on them.

 

Paul is entertaining 21 to 28 year old, very impressionable, young people and as a responsible adult it seems that he should have principals to live by. Actually he does. They just aren't inline with my principals. So I guess we agree to disagree.

 

I hope this made a bit of sense. like it or not, it's merely my opinion.

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And now a thought to the WS membership at large:

EVERYTHING written here is available for public consumption. If you dislike someone that's fine, but to mention them by name and hurl insults is a poor way to represent this organization.

That reads like you were expecting me to chime in before long.

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Unfortunately, using other peoples money often has strings attached making him a puppet to the machine.

Actually, one thing I like about Paul is his good-natured willingness to say "We're nothing if not whores here at Absintheology."

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Unfortunately, using other peoples money often has strings attached making him a puppet to the machine.

Actually, one thing I like about Paul is his good-natured willingness to say "We're nothing if not whores here at Absintheology."

 

Thank you for seeing the humor in that. It was meant as a joke (a joke based in some truth).

 

I want to be clear about two things. First. All those travel videos, the louche videos, that video where I call myself a whore, neither I, nor absintheology received any payment of any kind for those videos. We did those for fun and because we thought they would be interesting for people. In particular the louche videos and the whats in absinthe videos I thought would be very helpful for bartenders.

 

Second. No one dictates content on our site but us. In fact someone else handles the technical side and I am solely responsible for content. I may or may not be misinformed in some instances. I may hold very different opinions from some people here or elsewhere but they are my opinions and they are not for sale. We sell advertising space not our souls.

 

I give my opinion I do not under any circumstances for anyone for any amount of money say anything that I do not believe. I make mistakes all the time, but they are my mistakes. You think I'm wrong. Send me a note, stating exactly what and exactly why and exactly where it is on the website. I can edit anything printed there. You don't agree with the videos. Send me a note. I might change the video (unlikely). I might do a note that goes with the video (very likely). I might change future videos (almost assuredly) but I will not ignore you.

 

I keep an open mind and I am certainly open to instruction. I am not an expert, I am a student. I am willing to admit when I am wrong. More important I am willing to change the content on the website if someone here wants to send specific corrections to specific content.

 

You have an open invitation to send me an essay on any subject that you think will be helpful for people who sell absinthe. If its interesting I'll post it. You want to include a link to WWS I am happy to do it.

 

My only rule is that we do not publish anything negative on the website (except about French people). I do not believe that any good is served by being negative. You may disagree. You are welcome to your opinion. I respect that opinion and even see the merits of it. You don't need to explain to me why you believe what you do. I understand and I agree on the validity of your belief. I just do no agree.

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I keep an open mind. My only rule is that we do not publish anything negative on the website (except about French people). I do not believe that any good is served by being negative.

 

Please explain. Which is it? Open mind or not? This is just a fractional example of you talking from both sides/ends.

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My only rule is that we do not publish anything negative on the website (except about French people).

 

As someone who has spent a lot of time in France and who loves the French people, their culture, food and wine, this is offensive and is a stereotype that befits the previous administration. Not funny and definitely negative.

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Seconded, being French, I think they are self-satisfied, over-confident, petty and most of the time "perfume covered" stinky, but because of that all, and basically because I'm one, naturally, I have to b*** about it ;)

 

The guy tends to tell us he may have humour, so just forget this one and let's go back to the debat which was... black nails, burnt absinthe, no louche in the "absinthe", or a personal attack ?

 

Anyway, please let the French people handle the "knowing nothing but telling that you're an expert" behaviour, I think that we are born to be the best at that.

 

On a second note, that would mean : if you want to talk like an expert about absinthe, measure your words carefuly. (note to self : apply to self)

 

On a more constructive note Paul (I don't feel like calling you like your friends do): a bad video on youtube is the best way to piss the hell out of a group of connaisseurs. I'd suggest you script it beforehand, and talk with some of the fine people you will find around here. And validate your script and your products with the same people who would burn you to the ground if you made a mistake That's a way not to detonate a bomb.

 

With good audience and good content, you could do something good. Fail to one of these and, like you see currently, you go to war. We all make mistakes (hell, I know experts that a few years ago couldn't tell appart a tuna server and an absinthe spoon, or an absinthe glass and a glass cup), the type of medium on which you make them is crucial though

Edited by Aggelos

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if you want to talk like an expert about absinthe, measure your words carefuly. (note to self : apply to self)

Very wise words for all of us and not only pertaining to absinthe. :cheers:

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You do just fine, Bill, just fine indeed! So modest and humble. :wave2:

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And now a thought to the WS membership at large:

EVERYTHING written here is available for public consumption. If you dislike someone that's fine, but to mention them by name and hurl insults is a poor way to represent this organization.

That reads like you were expecting me to chime in before long.

 

Ha! Honestly no, I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular. But in the last year we had the lady from NYC make the bad absinthe video, she got trash-talked here and then the Trolls used our own words against us in the video comments. Then people vent about Absinthe Supreme and POOF here's the co-owner joining to defend himself. Same with Paul in this thread. In all three cases people have legitimate issues with the products (two videos, one beverage) but talked about them as though we were in a private club. That is the part I feel we need to watch. Honoring those who are not here to defend themselves can be difficult (especially when you vehemently disagree with them), but I do think it's a better business model.

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Irony may be in the eye of the beholder but negative comments about the people of an entire country are still negative comments. Yes, this is something I have been sensitive about for many years. Quite honestly I am sick of it.

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I've mellowed a bit.

 

Specially since I don't need to get my blood pressure up about something I can't even afford to drink.

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My only rule is that we do not publish anything negative on the website (except about French people).

 

As someone who has spent a lot of time in France and who loves the French people, their culture, food and wine, this is offensive and is a stereotype that befits the previous administration. Not funny and definitely negative.

 

 

And obviously a joke. Even if you don't know me the whole structure of that screamed "Joke". or perhaps you were joking too. It's so hard to tell who is joking and who is serious on these boards.

 

I'm usually joking.

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Irony may be in the eye of the beholder but negative comments about the people of an entire country are still negative comments. Yes, this is something I have been sensitive about for many years. Quite honestly I am sick of it.

 

Are you sick of the bashing or are you sick of being sensative?

 

Dude... Lighten up. You would think I just called your sister names. Some of my best friends are french (Of course I wouldn't want one dating my sister). I talk like this to my French friends and I joke like this to French audiences. Actually much harsher in both cases. I used to have a French girl friend. It's a lot easier to get French girls into a Ménage à Troi. With American girls I usually have to settle for a three some... It's not the same at all- .

 

I like French kissing and French post cards, and I love French wine. I'm from SF so I'm in the middle of wine country and there is some nice stuff here but nothing like French wine. So there is a lot to like about the French. Best of all... They are not German. Of course that was really more our doing than their's but I think they are happy about it even if they don't always show it.

 

Plus they can take a joke.

 

French people know that they smell like cheese (You would know that to if you ever rode the Paris subway - Oh my god), and that they are arrogant, and that they are rude. They do it on purpose in the hopes that American tourists will notice and say something to them about it. It's a game they play. They get a prize for the rudest behavoir without actually provoking an appropriate response. (I just want you to know Mr. Marking that I cut a very funny - very offensive joke out here - as a show of good faith - I am trying to take your feelings into consideration).

 

All joking aside... I have a love hate relationship with the French. I love France and hate French Canadians. How can you not. Love France I mean. (I don't really hate French Canadians either-the French do though, Ironic isn't it.) The countryside is beautiful. Paris is lovely (not as nice as Parisians think - but New York is not as nice as New Yorkers think - and Chicago is definitely not as nice as Chicagoans think)

 

But the French are constantly fucking shit up. The do it on purpose. They have a department of pissing me off. It's official. This particular department changes non French words that enter the lexicon into words that are more Frenchish.

 

Computer is my favorite example. The world calls them computers. The frigging Chinese call them computers and they don't even have a real alphabet. But not the French... No. they used to call them computers. Most of the population still calls them computers, but the official word for computer in France is "ordinator". Ordinator means computer but it sounds more French. They build walls not bridges with this sort of thing. Two out of every three songs on the radio in France must be French and have French lyrics. All films are dubbed no subtitles. This stuff is intentional.

 

I actually love the French. I love Paris in particular. I'm going there next week to write more lies and misinformation (an more blogs insulting the inhabitants)

 

I have no desire to offend anyone. Be assured if you ever catch me insulting an entire population or saying something so outlandish that it can not possibly be true than I am probably joking. In fact the more insulting and unlikely the insult the more it is obviously a joke. If I have offended you in any way please accept my sincere appology. I do mean to joke. I do not mean to cause offense to anyone.

 

The flip side of that is that I am not mad at anyone here for anything they have said about me. I'm mostly amused that anyone would take this all so seriously. I don't mean the material, I mean getting so worked up over me saying that the Sazerac was the oldest cocktail and being mad because the Bartender had black nail polish. I mean honestly how am I supposed to take the insults about he black nail polish seriously. And how am I supposed to take the rest of the insults eriously when I am still laughing about how peeved everyone was about the nail polish.

 

I think I'm just going to start a new thread - It will be the I hate Paul Nathan because... thread. Everyone can bash me publicly there and I'll answer everyone personally and then I can address all the wrongs all at once instead of one at a time.

 

PS. I tried to make all of the above content feel more like jokes so that you would know I am not serious. The truth is that I travel around the world becuae I love seeing new places and meeting new people. I am faschinated, intriqued by the differences and I love the stories, the history yes but the stories more. Make no mistake when I insult Paris it is becuase it is one of my favorite cities in the world. I have been there, I have ridden the subways at rush hour and the people there do stink of sweat and not enough deoderant and I love it. It is the smell of people not the sanitized smell of a train in Tokyo. I love that smell. I love the smell of the crowd pushed together into too small a space. I love the sidewalk cafes and I love pissing off the waiters by attempting to speak French. they hear what I am doing to thier language and they just stop me before it makes thier ears bleed and sucks the happiness out of thier souls. It makes me smile that they love thier language so much. That they love being French so much.

 

So when I joke it is out of love, affection, and familiarity. Not out of spite, malice, or any real attempt to insult the entire population of France.

 

That appology was for you Mr. Marking - not for the people of French.

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