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minott

Le Tourment Vert

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Finally, I need to ask if you really want me to be part of your forums? The apparent anger and vitriol in your posts makes me think I might be intruding in a place I don't belong.

 

I really do respect your opinions and your desire to protect the integrity of absinthe.

 

Would you prefer I not participate?

My 2 cents:(not that it's needed!)

Speaking as someone who: A) has only been a member here for a short time, and B) is not nearly as knowledgeable as many other members, I personally believe it is mutually beneficial for you to participate in this forum. I obviously don't know you personally, but you seem to have come here with a cordial and sincere interest in the subject at hand. As you have undoubtedly found out, members here are extremely passionate about what constitutes "REAL" absinthe. Considering all of the history behind this particular spirit, it is no wonder that many of us rush in to defend against that which we feel "muddies the waters" (louches?) of what is genuine and what is not. I would agree with peridot when he suggests that the current version of LTV be considered "wormwood schnapps", or "absinthe liqueur", rather than "Absinthe".

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A friend asked my opinion of this particular thread. At that time I had only read bits and pieces. I've read it all now.

 

Minott has been given some advice, opinions, directions and so forth. He has been shown the light. The ball is in his court now.

 

He says he has a lot of stock left, terrific! Maybe if it were LTV liqueur instead of LTV absinthe things would be much different.

 

Schnapps (sp?) or however it's spelled is better than calling it absinth(e). He wanted it in TGI Fridays and they probably have rules.

 

How much control he has over the marketing...well, it's so much like the czechsinthe hype they could be cousins.

 

I liked the bottle but not the contents. JMO

 

CHANGE seems to be the buzz word of 2009. There is room for change.

 

We've seen Leopold change his absinthe several times. It got better each time. Why he made the changes, only he knows.

 

Absinthe is a passion and we are passionate when it comes to this beverage. Are we snobs? If I say no then I'm in denial and if I say yes then nobody will want to play with me.

 

Make your changes Minott. There is a wealth of information here and at other forums. The price is right. When you change the contents of the bottle perhaps some small change can be made to the outside also. Less confusion would keep me from being stung again.

 

Stick around Minott and keep us informed. No one is asking for trade secrets but just a decent absinthe at the very least.

 

Positive reinforcement at your service.

 

To your health, Cheers!

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The definition I subscribed to in development is the general one that absinthe is a higher alcohol content spirit 45%+ containing predominant character of anise with fennel and Grand Wormwood (Artemisia absinthium) and green color in the case of the french verte type.

You can save yourselves the trouble of attacking this.

No one attacked it. Perhaps that comment was not related to...

Before, you said:

Needless to say, I believe Tourment is absinthe and can point to lots of definitions that support that belief.

So I sincerely asked:

Please provide those other definitions. I am willing to be educated and enlightened.

And I am.

No one here really believes the total body of absinthe-work from 1800 to 1900 has been discovered. If you have other legitimate information, please share it.

 

But perhaps you were speaking defensively, feeling that you had been forced into a corner?

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I can't answer for him, but I must say he is probably overwhelmed with so many responses under such a short amount of time. This thread was started four days ago...depending on time zone...and it already has six pages and I didn't even check to see how many views. How does that compare to other/average threads here on WS? My guess is a hell of a lot more, but I don't about any of that. I leave that all to the Boss to think about. I'm here for the laughs. And my own damn thread rambling. ;)

 

 

Again, it's not my place to really say, but perhaps there is or could be a better method or protocol for resolving and educating some of these issues. I don't know if the common WS thread format even works for this type of situation. I've seen a few members come and go because they post several thoughts, and 10 other WS forum members respond to that one post, eventually rules get broken and someone gets in hot water. Hot flaming water with creme-brulee goo all over the place...and nobody here wants that. I don't know the best solution...but think a step in the right direction would be something similar to that movie line reference thread we had going a while back...something along the lines of one person responds to minott's post, then we let him reply once and then someone here replies. It's a terrible solution...I know, but I think that since minott made the effort to come here and start an open conversation with us deserves that we give him the chance and show him a little more restraint. Admittedly I haven't read this entire thread...but from what I have read I think everyone's been very conservative in their thoughts about the situation...the product...and the producer(s)...which should also be recognized. I'm rambling...hehe.

 

 

I think both sides have been playing fair, but I think there's a better way out there to handle communication than what is currently being used, even if I don't know what it is. Minott made the effort to come here...I think we should look at ways of keeping him here, and that bombarding him with too many responses is not the way to do that.

 

 

It's time to finish what I started several hours ago but was rudely taken away from. I owe some nice folks some phone calls too. Some other time. I'm still rambling. Hehe.

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baubel, some good points there. But for those who haven't been here or at Fée Verte for several years, the discussion has followed the normal course of similar discussions. It happened here with Hill's, and it even happened to me over at Fée Verte when I worked elsewhere.

 

I can't recall ANYTHING positive coming out of those discussions with the exceptions of La Fée XS (!) and the fact that I realised a career change was necessary if I wanted to work for a high quality absinthe business.

 

Maybe my conversion to the cause makes me more aggressive than others. I had one PM telling me to back off, but also one email telling me I should be more aggressive.

 

My bottom line from what I read is that I don't believe minott will make an absinthe that we will recognise as real. It seems he plans to keep the sugar in (he referred to changes only to anise and color hue). We haven't worked with recipes with sugar (because it's not absinthe), but I suspect that sugar keeps it cheaper (without it, he'd have to change the herb balance). If others think I am wrong, then feel free to comment, but it's notable that both the cheapest products in the absinthe/fauxsinthe sector (Tourment and Absente) are liqueurs (i.e. have sugar). In any case, the reviews of Tourment in the Review section here suggests minott needs to do a lot more than tweak his product.

 

As they say, the proof is in the pudding, or in this case, the product and the marketing.

 

I sincerely hope we see a change in the marketing ploy as well as the product. I wonder how much of a positive force you could be for the absinthe community with real absinthe and an equal dedication to legitimate absinthe marketing. It would be a tremendous boon to absinthe education if Absinthe Saul was struck by the light.

and

 

How much control he has over the marketing...well, it's so much like the czechsinthe hype they could be cousins.

:cheers: :cheers: I think minott has more control than the Czechs.

 

I regret that we didn't discuss this issue in some detail with minott. For me, and, I suspect, for others, this is a major issue. I don't care what minott does to his product, as long as he doesn't damage the category. I already quoted Ben's survey write-up once, but it's worth quoting again:

 

Absinthe enthusiasts, retailers, editors, and all others in a position of influence, please utilize this knowledge in a way that will best serve to improve the quality, selection, and reputation of this wonderful and often-misunderstood drink we all know and love. The future of absinthe for decades to come is being determined right now. What we decide to do-or not do-could be the difference between having readily-available quality absinthe at our fingertips, or wormwood-flavoured vodka at select bars a decade from now.

 

Will you allow the misconceptions and faux absinthe products to continue to erode the reputation of absinthe, or do what‘s within your power to improve it?

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Will you allow the misconceptions and faux absinthe products to continue to erode the reputation of absinthe, or do what‘s within your power to improve it?

 

I have to say that the reputation of absinthe went downhill in the early 20th century and the faux absinthe products took it from there.

 

 

People need to realize that there is nothing they can do about products that don't taste very good and getting an "absinthe" label. They can be legitimate products - sans sucre, louche and still be an actual absinthe - and they'll still be terrible. They could use cheap herbs, or have poor protocols or whatever.

 

Only Minott can decide where he wants to go with his product. He could make sufficient changes to his product to meet the minimum WS definition for absinthe. And people here still won't like it.

 

btw, have any cocktail experts made any of the "tourmented" cocktails?

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Just to add my observation of the reviews on this. Why have so many people chosen to taste and review this product while there are so many others more favorable to write so extensively about?

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Btw, Minott has shown the way for some enterprising future absinthe distiller to create a decent (even good) authentic absinthe, artificially colored, to appeal to the TGIF demographic. Probably some money to be made if your into that sort of thing. After all, it is the American Way. :cheers:

 

 

(btw, I'm not doing this.)

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the reviews of Tourment in the Review section here suggests minott needs to do a lot more than tweak his product.

 

 

Let him keep LTV and just add to his product line. The best of both worlds for him...maybe. He could keep his customer base as is, plus increase sales to people that appreciate a well crafted drink. I think a round of prototypes would be a start and then tweak from there. I've bought several prototypes not knowing what the end label was going to be and still don't know what they became.

 

La Fee did something like that. I'm sure there are quite a few others but I don't get out much.

 

If some of that LTV marketing money went into designing a quality product I think it would be money well spent. JMO

 

As for his Tourment cocktails...no, I haven't given them an honest try.

 

I still think the removal of the word absinthe on LTV would be a step in the right direction.

 

This is not a rant but merely an unsolicited opinion.

 

Absinthe enthusiasts, retailers, editors, and all others in a position of influence, please utilize this knowledge in a way that will best serve to improve the quality, selection, and reputation of this wonderful and often-misunderstood drink we all know and love. The future of absinthe for decades to come is being determined right now. What we decide to do-or not do-could be the difference between having readily-available quality absinthe at our fingertips, or wormwood-flavoured vodka at select bars a decade from now.

Amen

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Just to add my observation of the reviews on this. Why have so many people chosen to taste and review this product while there are so many others more favorable to write so extensively about?

 

I think it's because many of us view it as even more important to initially warn people about the evil-tasting misrepresentations of absinthe, than it is to point them in the direction of the truly laudatory examples, simply because the advertising for the former tends to be more aggressive, and ubiquitous.

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Ditto!

 

Of course, back in '99, some absinthe savants were praising the likes of Deva,(since there was very little out there to choose from), so reviews had a somewhat more marginal utility.

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Probably also because people who bought it found they had no use for it other than to share samples with everyone else. :)

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You forgot the balztrippin'™ factor onacuz, back then, a little went a long way.

 

Remember, this was before Ted conducted his in-depth thujone research, which meant absinthe had much more of it back then. ;)

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Let him keep LTV and just add to his product line.

 

sounds aboot right to me. Just do it right and give it a different name, and let the mouthwash drinkers drink mouthwash, and the absintheurs drink absinthe with their pinkies authoritatively extended! :laugh:

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On another note

 

My wife was watching Desperate Housewives last night and said that there was an LTV bottle in a character's liquor cabinet.

 

Is that a positive or negative?

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Definite Negative!!!!!!!!!!!

 

People could be like, hey what's that strange bottle...

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Alan, it appears you have predicted the outcome of this thread perfectly. Minott is gone, and something tells me he's not coming back...

 

On another note

 

My wife was watching Desperate Housewives last night and said that there was an LTV bottle in a character's liquor cabinet.

 

Is that a positive or negative?

 

Sounds like someone didn't read the first 6 pages! ;)

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Alan, it appears you have predicted the outcome of this thread perfectly. Minott is gone, and something tells me he's not coming back...

 

On another note

 

My wife was watching Desperate Housewives last night and said that there was an LTV bottle in a character's liquor cabinet.

 

Is that a positive or negative?

 

Sounds like someone didn't read the first 6 pages! ;)

 

Hi Ben-

 

I'm here. I'll stay unless you prefer I go.

 

Minott

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Now we just need to get back to discussing! Something tells me that by the end of the week, we might have some good headway made. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but you never know. :)

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If you're serious about improving your product line and producing a quality absinthe, stay!

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I'm very serious about the improvements we have planned. It remains to be seen if how you will judge it but I am hopeful.

In the meantime, thanks to those above. I learn a lot here and would like to stay.

Minott

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it even happened to me over at Fée Verte when I worked elsewhere.

I can't recall ANYTHING positive coming out of those discussions with the exceptions of La Fée XS (!) and the fact that I realised a career change was necessary if I wanted to work for a high quality absinthe business.

I'd been wanting to draw a parallel between La Fée and LTV for a while, but resisted until I saw Alan post this. La Fée got an early lock on the Low-End, Shelf-Stable, Artificially Colored absinthe niche. I'm still surprised they haven't had more success getting their product into every store and bar in the country with this formula. But then when their man Alan got onto the fora, the ultimate result was the introduction of a top-shelf line, La Fée XS, which might have worked out better if they had either made it themselves, or not so egregiously overcharged for it.

 

So:

I say develop and release a real absinthe.

As that absinthe is being released, change the label on LTV to the more accurate absinthe schnapps or wormwood schnapps. Then phase it out completely.

What he said.

The second product doesn't have to be a fine wine, either, just a legitimate absinthe. If you could make it just a little bit better than La Fée, (no sugar, a bit more wormwood flavor) I don't see why you couldn't win a giant chunk of the market.

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