Jump to content

 

Photo

New Thujone study


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Brian Robinson

Brian Robinson

    Shabba

  • Advisory Board
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,789 posts

Posted 02 April 2009 - 06:42 PM

The full study will probably be available soon at thujone.info. This does a very good job of debunking the argument by many 'Arnoldists' that say analysis of existing pre-ban samples is inherently flawed due to supposed degradation of the thujone content.

Scavenged from Prov's post at FV:

Research was conducted to ascertain whether analyses of vintage absinthe samples represent their original composition in the early 1900s. Absinthe stored in traditional green glass bottles and irradiated with ultraviolet light for up to 200 h exhibited unchanged composition. Samples stored in clear glass exhibited an 18% reduction in beta-thujone content and a concurrent decoloration. These experiments indicate the stability of thujone in vintage absinthes, as these were stored in green glass bottles. The preserved color of the preban absinthes subjected to analysis indicates that no significant light exposure occurred throughout the duration of storage, and therefore provides indirect proof that no loss of terpenes occurred. The stability of absinthe was further demonstrated through the reanalysis of samples from 2001-2005, which exhibited no changes in thujone content as of 2008. A previous evaluation of preban absinthe was therefore valid and not confounded by significant thujone deterioration over time.

Attached File  jf_2008_03975m_0004.gif   39.32KB   33 downloads

There are still some kinks that need to be worked out further, but overall it's a great step.
Answers to common newcomer questions.

List of WS articles from across the web.


Help other absintheurs and newcomers by submitting a review. Click here to go to the main review page to submit your entry.

Rantings of a DC Gourmand.
WS on the Mutineer Blog!

#2 rambus

rambus

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:14 PM

It always struck me as odd that this was not addressed in the original studies. Very good to see this work was finally done!
"Got tight last night on absinthe and did knife tricks" -Ernest Hemingway

#3 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,246 posts

Posted 03 April 2009 - 12:25 AM

This is gold. Not that it's surprising.

Maker of Marteau Absinthe
Master Distiller, Gnostalgic Spirits Distillery
www.absinthemarteau.com
Confessions of an Absinthiste


#4 Antoine

Antoine

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 143 posts

Posted 03 April 2009 - 02:40 AM

It's a really nice job !

I just notice that this absinthe will be legal neither in US nor in France. And it was one of the best absinthe. It shows that the laws need to change but it will take time...
Absinthe : Go travelling through its universe and (re)discover its many treasures !

#5 Boggy

Boggy

    Delusions of Competence

  • Canned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts

Posted 03 April 2009 - 03:11 AM

Huh? Which absinthe?
Surviving the attacks of mentally-deficient creatures of the dark and carrying on (since 1999).
 
[Ironically, 1999 is the year the Dunning-Kruger effect was first advanced. - Admin]=

#6 Antoine

Antoine

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 143 posts

Posted 03 April 2009 - 03:27 AM

analyses of vintage absinthe samples represent their original composition in the early 1900s


I mean, they don't say exactly with absinthe it was, but it's a picture of "Pernod Fils"
Absinthe : Go travelling through its universe and (re)discover its many treasures !

#7 Boggy

Boggy

    Delusions of Competence

  • Canned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts

Posted 03 April 2009 - 03:52 AM

The absinthes that were added to the previous data and analyzed are the following:

Edouard Pernod, Switzerland, ca. 1900
Pernod fils, France, ca. 1910 (2)
Jules Pernod, France, ca. 1910
Grande Distillerie Lyonnaise, France, ca. 1895
Duval-Dubied
Pernod fils, France, ca. 1914 (2)

The picture is just for reference purposes and AFAIK, if new bottles of Pernod fils are found, they are for sale and it is legal.

That fact that 4 of them do not meet EU standards means nothing since EU standards are utter BS, just like the minimum or maximum tujon levels. These are completely irrelevant and cannot be perceived organoleptically.
Surviving the attacks of mentally-deficient creatures of the dark and carrying on (since 1999).
 
[Ironically, 1999 is the year the Dunning-Kruger effect was first advanced. - Admin]=

#8 Antoine

Antoine

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 143 posts

Posted 03 April 2009 - 04:12 AM

The absinthes that were added to the previous data and analyzed are the following:

Edouard Pernod, Switzerland, ca. 1900
Pernod fils, France, ca. 1910 (2)
Jules Pernod, France, ca. 1910
Grande Distillerie Lyonnaise, France, ca. 1895
Duval-Dubied
Pernod fils, France, ca. 1914 (2)

The picture is just for reference purposes and AFAIK, if new bottles of Pernod fils are found, they are for sale and it is legal.

That fact that 4 of them do not meet EU standards means nothing since EU standards are utter BS, just like the minimum or maximum tujon levels. These are completely irrelevant and cannot be perceived organoleptically.


Thanks for this information.

When I said "this absinthe will be legal neither in US nor in France" I mean that nowadays, the laws in the US don't allow that much thuyone and the law in France don't allow that much fenchone and pinocamphone. That's why it is impossible to make an absinthe with exactly the same recipe.Posted Image

I really need to improve my English otherwise it's sometimes difficult for me to explain my thought properly...

Edited by Antoine, 03 April 2009 - 06:06 AM.

Absinthe : Go travelling through its universe and (re)discover its many treasures !

#9 Boggy

Boggy

    Delusions of Competence

  • Canned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts

Posted 03 April 2009 - 04:21 AM

That's why it is impossible to make an absinthe with exactly the same recipe.

It is possible, but it won't have exactly the same tujon, fenchone etc content, hence according to stupid regulations it will be still completely marketable in the US or France, yet how closely it will resemble its vintage predecessor is another, much more complicated story.

Even two absinthes of the same producer and of the same year had had different data. However, this is not what what we care about. TASTE is the most important.
Surviving the attacks of mentally-deficient creatures of the dark and carrying on (since 1999).
 
[Ironically, 1999 is the year the Dunning-Kruger effect was first advanced. - Admin]=

#10 Antoine

Antoine

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 143 posts

Posted 03 April 2009 - 05:55 AM

TASTE is the most important.


I totally agree ! :cheers:
Absinthe : Go travelling through its universe and (re)discover its many treasures !

#11 seeker of truth

seeker of truth

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 846 posts

Posted 30 April 2009 - 03:13 AM

It's thanks to controlled, accurate tests like these that people will begin to listen to and learn the truth. To quote their (Dirk W. Lachenmeier, David Nathan-Maister, Theodore A. Breaux, Eva-Maria Sohnius, Kerstin Schoeberl, and Thomas Kuballa) earlier work published in Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, April 2008 "Chemical Composition of Vintage Preban Absinthe with Special Reference to Thujone, Fenchone, Pinocamphone, Methanol, Copper, and Antimony Concentrations":

The results of the analysis show quite conclusively that the thujone concentration of pre-ban absinthe has been grossly over-estimated in the past. Papers published in the 1980's and 1990's postulated thujone concentrations as high as 260 mg/L, on the basis of purely theoretical calculations, not actual analysis. It's already well known that modern absinthes made according to historical recipes don't have anything like these levels of thujone ' now, this new study has shown that the original absinthes of the Belle Époque also had only very moderate levels of thujone. The total thujone content of the 13 pre-ban samples was found to range between 0.5 and 48.3 mg/L. Contrary to ill-informed speculation, the average thujone content of 25.4 ± 20.3 mg/L fell within the modern EU limit of 35 mg/L.

All other constituents were also toxicologically inconspicuous. Nothing besides ethanol was found in the absinthes able to explain the so-called syndrome 'absinthism'. In other words, the entire historical demonization of absinthe is based on a false premise ' that it is a thujone-rich drink. It isn't.
[/font]

Taken from thujone.info
I talk like a drunk man walks, in every which way but where he is headed.

#12 Gil

Gil

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 138 posts

Posted 10 May 2009 - 08:00 PM

Taste is what keeps us searching --- Plus it's FUN
"It's not that we don't have enough scoundrels to curse; it's that we don't have enough good men to curse them."
--G.K. Chesterton


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright © 2014 The Wormwood Society Absinthe Association