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Father time of absinthe

St george Absinthe or Obsello absenta or mansinthe absinthe?

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MANSON:

- absinthe is not an alcohol thing.

- It gets you strange it's an opiate sort of thing it's like the equivalent of THC in marijuana.

- I have a guy who sends it [thujone] to me in a dropper; I can put it in Kool-Aid, you don't even need the alcohol.

That's not misinformation?

 

 

I guess I'll backtrack too, Shabba, just to play the Devil's advocate.

 

From what I understand, that part abot THC-thujone equivalency, I don't think it is misinformation. Technically speaking, both THC and thujone play on and attach to receptors in the brain, and thus they are "chemically active", and this puts them in what some might call an "equivalency".

 

Again, manson never said that drinking absinthe would get you "high", but that you would feel strange.

 

I wouldn't argue that secondaries are "strange"-feeling.

 

That part about the "thujone in a koolaid dropper" is just a joke, obviously. Not a very good one.

 

"absinthe is not an alcohol thing" - I agree with this too, and I'm sure the rest of you will too.

 

As for absinthist's comment about the 100 euro price of the prerelease, I'm sure manson didn't set the price, or even care, but I'll ask you this: how can Mr. Breaux justify selling his Jade line at 55 pounds, when other products can be artisinally made for the same price?

 

 

Hey, manson is a douchebag, but I'm just saying, for the sake of the argument, he hasn't done anything wrong.

 

Not that this even matters anymore, but:

 

Shabba, as for your "if KOSG tasted good would you still buy it?" Yes.

 

Are you telling me that if Jade Edouard was hyped you wouldn't buy it? I'd love to believe I'd have such scruples and ethics, but I'm just plain shallow.

 

And this was the topic of the thread; what starter absinthe is good?

 

Mansinthe, for starts, is good.

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The slicing and dicing of the word play is fairly laughable.

I'm expecting a definition of the word "is" at any moment. :laugh:

 

Yeah T, but I think it is fair to slice and dice ambiguous statements like the ones Shabba has presented about manson. Those can be sliced and diced. And really, I don't think he's said anything wrong, that I know of. I'm not redefining anything but I am clarifying:

 

Look:

 

"It gets you strange it's an opiate sort of thing it's like the equivalent of THC in marijuana."

 

This, taken literally, is not misinformation. No matter how much of a douchebag manson is. Thujone IS the equilivant of THC in pot, chemically speaking.

 

Remember T, you interpret too, when you interpret this same quote to be "Thujone gets you high like THC". Thats not what is literally there.

 

Now, had manson said, "Thujone gets you high, just like THC", this would be misinformation, and you guys would have a leg to stand on.

 

But he didn't.

 

So, I don't believe there is any slicing or dicing going on, or postulation, or paraphrasing, or anything of the sort.

 

In fact, I'm the only one being literal.

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Just a brief comment about the price differences. Everything that is sold is only worth what the consumer is willing to pay for it and not a cent more. François Guy and Kübler are roughly the same price as I recall, it's been awhile. For my money, Kübler get's the nod and I've enjoyed more than one bottle of FG. *smile*

 

Cheers!

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I always thought WS was about awareness and education.

I was specifically talking about our policy in regards to the 'recommended vendors' section of the main page, which I quoted.

I never thought hype was a considered variable as to who makes the list. Going by this quote:

 

"There are many vendors out there, but these are the most commonly used and found to be reliable, with good prices and fast shipping. They are not paying sponsors and appear here only because of their reputation for integrity, quality and service."

 

I always took it as more of a BBB angle, i.e. experience and input from users. If hype was a major player then why do some of them sell Czechsinthe? If Manson is all hated because he plays it up for fan rags, and yet we can all agree that it's at least a decent drink, then why do we patronage reputable sites that push what is considered inferior products that are more harmful to absinthe's legacy? What happened to that principle that that was chalked up earlier? ;)

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I've been wondering whether/when to butt in.

 

I was specifically talking about our policy in regards to the 'recommended vendors' section of the main page, which I quoted .... If hype was a major player then why do some of them sell Czechsinthe? ... why do we patronage reputable sites that push what is considered inferior products that are more harmful to absinthe's legacy?

No, I can't find a single Czechsinthe brand on ANY of the recommended vendors' sites.

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In fact, I'm the only one being literal.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

 

Briefly off topic: I just spent the last two hours shoveling 32" of snow off a second story deck. The whole time, I'm wondering if I'm going to die from the avalanche from above pushing me off or if I'm going to die when the roof collapses from all the weight. I'm delighted to say, neither happened but I've peaked out on adrenalin for the moment. W00T!

 

The point is, I really don't want to play semantics, smiley. If you want to believe Manson is: good, bad, angelic, demonic, a swindler, an asshole, a saint, a sinner, or the reincarnation of the Green Fairy, knock yourself out.

 

If you think Mansinthe is: A-Okay, shitty, yummy, makes a great colonic or is the future of absinthe, good for you.

 

If you think Manson's hype is: passe', drug-infused, silly, pointless, nonexistent or in the mind of the acid-head, cool dude.

 

I understand advertising, motivation and subtext. Several people whom I hold in tremendous respect strongly disagree with you. They've presented strong arguments and based on their knowledge and reputation, I think I'll choose to side with them. You've dismissed their arguments poorly and presented your own arguments poorly so I remain unconvinced.

 

Now, please, let the horse decompose in peace.

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I haven't taken the time to read all the replies so what I'm going to write may have already been said. If so, please forgive the redundancy.

 

Taste is subjective. What one person thinks is the next best thing to divinity may make you heave your guts out. :puke:

 

With that said, if you don't know what you like then you'll simply have to taste them. One option is to go to a bar where absinthe is served. I see you're in California. One place I know in the mid-Wilshire district of Los Angeles is a venue called Monte Cristo. It's a large upstairs warehouse studio with a well stocked bar and a seperate absinthe room. They have an adequate selection of absinthes for you to try and they serve absinthe with a proper fountain, etc.

 

If you're thinking about going for something close to traditional and "learn" to like it then Obsellio is your best bet. :thumbup:

 

I'll go and read the replies now and see how redundant my post was. :paperbag3:

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In fact, I'm the only one being literal.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

 

You were the one who was talking about "semantics" and "slicing and dicing of words". So, in being literal, I was showing you that there was no loss of meaning in my interpretation.

 

 

The point is, I really don't want to play semantics, smiley. If you want to believe Manson is: good, bad, angelic, demonic, a swindler, an asshole, a saint, a sinner, or the reincarnation of the Green Fairy, knock yourself out.

 

If you think Mansinthe is: A-Okay, shitty, yummy, makes a great colonic or is the future of absinthe, good for you.

 

If you think Manson's hype is: passe', drug-infused, silly, pointless, nonexistent or in the mind of the acid-head, cool dude.

 

I don't give a fuck about manson. If you paid any attention to any of my posts in this thread, or even the very nature of this thread, the topic was MANSINTHE, and whether it was any good. Then Shabba turned the subject to what a douchebag manson is, and I followed into what I thought was a discussion, not a self-agrandizing semantic-fest.

 

Knock myself out? Don't feel compelled to educate me, T. Hell, don't even feel compelled to take part of a discussion that doesn't meet your standards. Why are you even here to teach me a lesson if I'm not going to listen to you?

 

I understand advertising, motivation and subtext. Several people whom I hold in tremendous respect strongly disagree with you. They've presented strong arguments and based on their knowledge and reputation, I think I'll choose to side with them. You've dismissed their arguments poorly and presented your own arguments poorly so I remain unconvinced.

 

Forgive me if I don't choose to place my self worth in what you or your friends think of my ideas. I like to sleep comfortable; I don't much look forward to waking up in a cold sweat tonight thinking about how pitiful and time consuming this response has become.

 

Now, please, let the horse decompose in peace.

 

WTF? Shabba was the one who revived this thread, days after I was done, on the middle of page 5, after my picure of shatner, YESTERDAY:

 

I hate to backtrack just to address this, but I wanted it to be perfectly clear.

 

I'm fairly certain that everyone here who has voiced their opinion regarding not buying Mansinthe on principal has already tasted it, and I think they all gave the absinthe itself a good rating. But that's not the point.

 

And you're the one still arguing T!

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but it looks like I just blew your argument ABOUT the argument out of the water!

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I've been wondering whether/when to butt in.

 

I was specifically talking about our policy in regards to the 'recommended vendors' section of the main page, which I quoted .... If hype was a major player then why do some of them sell Czechsinthe? ... why do we patronage reputable sites that push what is considered inferior products that are more harmful to absinthe's legacy?

No, I can't find a single Czechsinthe brand on ANY of the recommended vendors' sites.

Thanks for getting me to double check, I'm obviously wrong on that now. I know eAbsinthe.com used to be on the list but is now off, and they sell Czech. My memory also fails me because I thought Lion did too. So thanks for the call.

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Well, I don't know about czechsinth, but I do know that FSC sells some highly questionable stuff.

 

And mansinthe too!

 

;)

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If we perceive Czechsinth and Bohemian absinth as anise free (ohne Anis) absinth, there are two products that fit that style and both are sold by Lion: 1) http://www.absinthe.de/shop/absinthe-aus-o...the-gruene-fee/ 2) http://www.absinthe.de/shop/absinthe-aus-o...nthe-mata-hari/

 

So you are right, these two "products" that contain no anise and are truly artifically coloured (like it is in case of Grune Fee, Mata Hari is believed to be coloured with herbs) are Czechsinths by definition. Still, in defense of Lion, there are only two crapsinths offered, whereas Alandia offers 17 of that kind.

 

The FSC offer is also hair-rising...

 

Personally, of all the recommended vendors I would choose only these whose offers do not cause any controversies among the potential customers, but it is still up to the latter.

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FSC is the first vendor I ever ordered absinthe from back in 2006, and I regularly visit back to see if they've improved their selection, or the information provided about the products they do offer. I've not made a second order (though when my bottle of Serpis Red runs out, I may...). I can't find any Czechsinth on their site, and even if the Spanish products are similarly artificially colored and simply oil mixes, I'm of the mind that they still stand as a reputable vendor that ought to be included by the WS.

 

Very few of FSC's products are even listed here on the WS review forums, but since they're the only vendor that seems to offer many of them, I doubt even experienced absintheurs will ever get the opportunity to even taste products like Deva or Philippe Lasala (not that anyone is necessarily missing out by not trying them).

 

BTW, has anyone ever tried Segarra Absenta 45%? Why the hell would it sell for 131 Euros?

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Actually, it was quite refreshing although you're not alone in wanting the pissing match to end. :cheers:

I just got done reading the rest of this thread... I'm speachless. :shock:

 

Here I thought this was about recommending which absinthe Father Time may want to try next from the choices he gave. I don't know nor do I care what he said or she said about him or her..., :dribble: I just know what I like, and I like Obsellio, St. George and Mansinthe among many others. In fact, I just put in an order for some Vieux Pontarlier from DUNY.

 

The Manson debate could (should :poke: ) be a thread all it's own.

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just to play the Devil's advocate.

Smiley, there's a difference between playing the devil's advocate in order to further a discussion, and playing one just to be difficult.

 

If you truly believe that those statements he made weren't done so in order to make his fans believe that absinthe makes you trippy, then we really can't have any further discussion.

 

Technically speaking, both THC and thujone play on and attach to receptors in the brain, and thus they are "chemically active", and this puts them in what some might call an "equivalency".
Seriously. You know that's not what he meant.

 

That part about the "thujone in a koolaid dropper" is just a joke, obviously. Not a very good one.
And why do you say that? You can actually get pure thujone legally. You can also buy wormwood extract legally. Why do you think he isn't doing that, or at least inferring that he's doing that?

 

"absinthe is not an alcohol thing" - I agree with this too, and I'm sure the rest of you will too.
If you're saying that most people here drink absinthe because of the secondaries, I'd guess you're wrong. Most people I know drink it because they like the flavor and the ritual.

 

Shabba, as for your "if KOSG tasted good would you still buy it?" Yes.

That's perfectly fine. But those of us who are actually interested in furthering the cause of the WS and the proliferation of truthful information about absinthe won't be following in your footsteps. There are those people on this site who have joined just because they like absinthe, and they like the community. That's fine. But then there are actually some who are doing real work as well. We take it a bit more seriously.

 

Are you telling me that if Jade Edouard was hyped you wouldn't buy it? I'd love to believe I'd have such scruples and ethics, but I'm just plain shallow.
No. I wouldn't. But there you go. You said it. I've got scruples and ethics, and you're shallow. Nuff said.

 

I think it is fair to slice and dice ambiguous statements like the ones Shabba has presented about manson.
How exactly were those statements by Manson abiguous?
Remember T, you interpret too, when you interpret this same quote to be "Thujone gets you high like THC". Thats not what is literally there.

 

In fact, I'm the only one being literal.

Um no. Being literal would be taking his statement about Kool Aid as fact. You interpreted it as a joke. So don't get on your high horse when you are making just as many interpretations as anyone else.

 

Let me ask you this:

How do you think Manson's fans would interpret those statements? Do you think they'd disect them as much as any of us have, or would they take them for face value and believe the hype that abisnthe is drug like?

Then Shabba turned the subject to what a douchebag manson is
No. I made a generally accepted statement about how Manson chooses to portray his product. You chose to jump all over it.

 

WTF? Shabba was the one who revived this thread, days after I was done, on the middle of page 5, after my picure of shatner
My choice to clear something up had nothing to do with you. I was responding to Fryke. It was you who chose to re-insert himself into the conversation. A conversation that wasn't being directed at you.

 

 

 

 

To summarize: Mansinthe is a well made, high quality absinthe. It's produced by a distillery that has a very good reputation. Some choose not to buy it strictly because they don't appreciate MM's decision to continue many of the myths surrounding absinthe. Others choose to buy it anyway. Neither party is wrong in doing so.

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Makes me want to louche up a Mansinthe just to determine whether or not it is even close to being worth all this!

 

Smile Man, I love your passion.

 

Shabba, I love your principles.

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Quick question for any chemists who might be reading this:

 

Are TCH and thujone "chemically equivalent?" And if so, what does that mean?

 

I was under the impression that this TCH-thujone equivalence is an urban legend, long debunked, but my expertise (such as it is) lies in the liberal arts, and thus I am no authority.

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Ain't no chemist, but one does not have to be to answer that one.

 

Firstly it is THC, Tetra Hydro Cannibinol. Delta nine THC is the most relevant isomer thereof with which we are concerned.

The theory was that since the porkchop molecule is of a similar shape to the THC then it would bind to the same receptors in the brain, theoretically duplicating the effects. This has been shown to simply be not true.

 

Chemically Active is a bullshit term that in this discussion means nothing. Pay no attention to anyone who uses it. They are liars, charlatans, or worse.

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And Smiley, why don't you go over to FV and run your pointless bullshit on that crowd? Oh yeah, cuz you'd get summarily trounced...........again. You are being handled with kid gloves here, and it is wearing all of our patience thin. Please bear that in mind and quit while you are behind. :nono:

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After a pleasant discussion via PM, I believe Mr. Smiley simply misunderstood a couple of positions. I could have been more succinct. His passion is admirable. Now, let's see if that damn horse will stay buried. :cheers:

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It annoys me when an ordinary discussion about the relative merits of a brand becomes a pointless exercise in wank-o-matics.

 

Just for the record, playing Devil's advocate is a real function properly used to test the strength of an argument or position by systematically opposing it. It is not random meanderings, spontaneous hypotheses, insincere apologetics or an argument for its own sake.

 

I'm all for entertaining divergent viewpoints, but this kind of thread takes the polish off of the quality of experience we want to provide for newcomers and regulars alike.

 

Kudos to Shabba and T73 for their usual suave diplomacy. :cheers:

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Firstly it is THC, Tetra Hydro Cannibinol.

 

Whoops! So it is!

 

Delta nine THC is the most relevant isomer thereof with which we are concerned.

The theory was that since the porkchop molecule is of a similar shape to the THC then it would bind to the same receptors in the brain, theoretically duplicating the effects. This has been shown to simply be not true.

 

That's what I thought, but as I said, without the scientific background (or a pot-smoking background, for that matter), I wasn't in a position to support my belief. Thanks for the information.

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And Smiley, why don't you go over to FV and run your pointless bullshit on that crowd? Oh yeah, cuz you'd get summarily trounced...........again.

 

:laf:

 

Now, who would go and do a mean, and bullying thing like that, I wonder? :paperbag3: ;)

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