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#31 Trid

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 03:31 PM

About a steampunk absinthe spoon - well, aren't absinthe spoons as such already pretty much objects of that style?


Period-wise, yes. Style-wise, not really (IMHO).
My vision of a steampunk absinthe spoon would be brass or a combination of brass and stainless, and be mechanical looking...like putting a handle on the end of an assembly of gears where the gears form the slotted spoon portion.

I'm cobbling together a sketch to provide some poor, unsuspecting sheetmetal shop that has CNC plasma cutting capability so they can fabricate my vision of my wedding cake pillars. If I ever get that to completion (sketch-wise) I'll have to get off my butt and finish the fountain design (for my own construction) and perhaps put one together for the spoon. Pictures are so much handier than words, donchaknow.

Call me a control freak, but I like having my hands in on the design aspect of most of what I do or have done. I designed SWMBO's engagement ring...thankfully, she actually *likes* it :)
http://triddlywinks....gagement_photos

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#32 fée époussetée

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 04:27 PM

Very well done Trid,

What lady coudnt say YES to such a thoughtful and talented gentleman ;)

Congrats! :cheers:



- Linda


I didn't forget... I'm just a tad absintheminded!
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#33 Trid

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 04:37 PM

:blush:
Aw shucks...thanks :)
Some people are like slinkies....not really useful for anything, but you can't help but to smile when you see them tumbling down a flight of stairs.

#34 Poor

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 03:45 AM

CNC Plasma Cutting.

:puke:

But this comes from a practiced blacksmith.



That office above, while very neat and an office I would love to work in, showed very little soul. It looked to be mostly mechanically cut out from a computerized pattern. No whimsy, no character.

If you can find a metalsmith (the newer the better, they will work for cheap) please have them do it, instead of contracting it out to a glorified computer programmer. You will both be happier in the long run, and you will have a better product.

On the other hand, if you are looking to outsource this to China to make thousands of copies for the tourist trade, by all means, CNC that commodity.

PS- Awesome ring! If a machinist turned that out from a mill, kudos to him, and booyah to your awesome design. I don't want to downplay your drafting skills.
"Babies belong in this lake, go ahead, throw him in!" said the Baby Eating Monster that lives in the lake.

#35 Trid

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:04 AM

While I can appreciate your art (and am quite envious of the opportunity to learn and hone it), what I'm trying to accomplish is a bit apples/oranges. I just want 3 legs of (effectively) a trivet cleanly cut out of 1/8th inch stainless and mirror finished. This just wouldn't be practical for handworking...I couldn't afford what even the greenest smith deserves for the amount of work it would take to do this by hand.

CNC plasma (or any computerized machining) has its place, and without a doubt, it's not where art and soul is to be imparted upon the piece being crafted. I'm all about hand crafting where possible. This is how I plan on tackling my steampunk fountain. At the moment, I'm mostly in need of a sheetmetal punch for the rivety goodness. I think I still have a small cache of salvaged overhead projector lenses that I'm aiming to fashion into a semblance of portholes.

Gah...this just reminds me of other projects that are awaiting completion.
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Some people are like slinkies....not really useful for anything, but you can't help but to smile when you see them tumbling down a flight of stairs.

#36 ShaiHulud

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:21 AM

Tattoos on the brain must be really painful. Hope you're not thinking of getting a piercing there, too.

Besides, Shai, I'd have thought you'd check out the Sword on the website Brooks linked to. Kind of reminds me of those offset-handle bread knives.

Ha. I don't know if you have any tattoos but if you do you, as an artist, probably know what I am talking about. I evaluate almost everything I see in terms of it's artistic appropriateness as a tattoo. I can't help it. I am designing a large shoulder piece around "The White Tree of Gondor" for myself.

That sword is interesting and cool looking. Practically, I can't imagine it would be very well balanced - Ari, what do you think?
Litany against fear of Absinthe - I must not fear Absinthe. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my Absinthe. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the Absinthe has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

#37 Daniel Lyons

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:34 PM

I often think about that myself, which is strange because I have none and plan to get none.

I once challenged my friends to tell me what algorithm they would pick to have tattooed. Quicksort was the first to be taken. I think I chose the unification algorithm back then, which is a great algorithm not just for the name but also what it represents, automated reasoning. However, it's not short; it would take up a lot of real estate, especially if implemented in Prolog, which would also be beautifully self-referential (like any good tattoo should be, in my universe).

These days I would pick the applicative-order Y combinator in Haskell:

y f = f (y f)

Short and sweet.

#38 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 10:42 PM

These days I would pick the applicative-order Y combinator in Haskell

And who wouldn't? I mean after all it totally stacks up... or not. Good call, in the end.

:blink:

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#39 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 10:47 PM

And if someone is going to do a steampunk fountain, you pretty much have to incorporate this:

Posted Image

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#40 Trid

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 05:59 AM

I've already made mental notes on it...except I was thinking some kind of geared water wheel in place of the see saw thingie...though that's just the first thing that came to mind. I'm sure I could get much more elaborate :)
Some people are like slinkies....not really useful for anything, but you can't help but to smile when you see them tumbling down a flight of stairs.

#41 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 06:54 AM

I was thinking some kind of geared water wheel

Yes, something connected to a clockwork that would allow precision timing of the drops. Also handy for water torture.

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#42 MMarking

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 11:40 AM

Got anybody in mind?
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#43 printmkr

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 03:19 PM

Regarding tattoos and generously calling myself an artist, I find it hard to come up with an image or statement that I would be happy with for the rest of my life.

I mean if I look back 30 some-odd years, what kind of tattoo would I have done? It probably would have revolved around music, maybe something from "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway." (OK, that would stilll be cool), but think of the 80's? what if I tatt ood "spudboy" or "Can't touch this" or "I'm turning Japanese" or in a real fit of pop pique, "super freak" or "Haircut 100 are God." Then where would I be?
"...anyone who listens to an artist talk should have his eyes examined."
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#44 Trid

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 03:52 PM

Along this tangent:
As I consider myself (mildly) an artist, and despite my left-brain logical bent, I've been a tattoo artist (still do freelance work) and have but one tattoo...which took me 4 years to settle upon, at that. I've had people ask me countlessly: "why don't you have more tattoos" ...or remark: "I figured you'd be covered in tattoos."

For the most part, I chalk it up to being picky/indecisive...but that's just me.

When I worked at a shop, there was one artist there who was covered with the most random mishmash of ink, from really nice pieces, to total crap, to something in between, and others yet-unfinished. In contrast, he was quite an amazing artist and turned out some really spectacular work. When people asked about his tattoos, and how, being such an artist himself, did he end up with some (presumably) regrettable work, he had an answer that always left me introspective. For him, his tattoos were milestones, so to speak. Each one had some particular significance at the time when he got it, no matter what its quality or subject matter. For him, it was an indelible reminder of that time. It didn't matter in the long run whether it still suited his particular tastes or whether it became dated or trite...it was about that time then. In contrast to a journal or diary which can be lost, his ink stays, no matter what.
It's not how I would go about my collection, although it's got a very personal level of validity. It makes me stop and ponder just how important it is to me that if I were to get a tattoo of whatever now, how would I feel about it 30 years from now...same for any potential client. That said, I'm narrowing down on my next choice (after 14 years) so when I get some time, I might get it. I will confess my wuss-ness and that I'd much rather be behind the needle than under it :)

I'm not meaning to change anybody's mind, but to give another perspective to pause and give thought to when the subject arises.

</soapbox>
Some people are like slinkies....not really useful for anything, but you can't help but to smile when you see them tumbling down a flight of stairs.

#45 printmkr

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 04:01 PM

That is a really a good point of view to have. I guess you should be selective of the times and things you wanted to document. I just didn't want to be the guy saying, "No, really, we thought Hammer was going to be the Next Big Thing!"
"...anyone who listens to an artist talk should have his eyes examined."
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#46 printmkr

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 04:28 PM

These days I would pick the applicative-order Y combinator in Haskell

And who wouldn't? I mean after all it totally stacks up... or not. Good call, in the end.

:blink:


You sounded just like a few Project Managers I have known! But not to change the subject, Daniel wax poetic on Haskell. Is this what you work in exclusively these days? Is it something you could install on client machines or ISPs? Or are you not doing that kind of work?
"...anyone who listens to an artist talk should have his eyes examined."
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#47 Daniel Lyons

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 11:26 PM

I wasn't sure, it sort of sounded like Hiram was making a call stack joke. Recursion is known for punishing the stack, but in a proper language, tail call recursion elimination reduces most of it to proper loops -- including, usually, a Y invocation, if you were crazy enough to actually use it. But since you're asking, and if you'll permit a bit of a departure...

Haskell is sort of the native tongue of recursion, function combination, side-effect free programming, that kind of thing. Infinite lists are no problem for it, make as many as you like, it computes things on demand. It's a theoretician's dream. The syntax is light and quite close to mathematical formalisms except where they're burdensome. Line counts tend to be astonishingly low -- a Mastermind solver in ~20 lines of code, a Sudoku solver in ~20 lines, RLE compression in 2 lines, Quicksort in 4 lines, etc. Of course there are other languages in which such astonishingly small line counts are possible, such as Forth or APL, but they tend to be unreadable messes compared to Haskell, which is very whitespacey, Englishy, and rather friendly.

Unfortunately, it lacks a decent UI toolkit. There are a number of interesting research-oriented ones, but of them all only the GTK binding is reasonably well-developed, which limits use to mostly Linux with a splash of Windows. Also, being strongly-typed, it doesn't lend itself to web stuff particularly much. There are two or three CGI type systems for it, but as a rule it isn't being used in that domain much except by the truly rabid. The trend in Haskell is toward research-grade libraries, usually confirmed to work only on a single platform, generally not as general or complete as they sound. It would be perfect for implementing non-Web daemons or non-graphical client side applications if such a thing still existed. Being a form of release for overly abstract theoreticians has certain drawbacks when it comes to pragmatic coding. There is supposedly a Cocoa library for it, but I haven't seen a single application written using it. I challenged someone on Reddit who mentioned it to give me a link to a single application, even one they wrote to prove to me it could be done, and they didn't ever respond.

Of course, its compiled applications tend to run as fast or faster than C, and you could deliver binaries for it to the client or the ISP. CGI should be possible. It's fairly self-contained; lots of people are using darcs for revision control on all platforms and it is a Haskell program. It's also a good representative of the kind of thing Haskell excels at: difficult problems that can be solved from the command-line in a single thread, generally more CPU-bound than IO-bound, with little in the way of surprises in the input.

So Haskell is, for the moment, a brilliant idea. Though I read recently a proof by argument that it may not be as modular as languages with destructively updateable global state.

Lately I've been focusing on Lisp. There are many web frameworks for it, including one I'm writing. Lisp lacks a lot of the mathematical purity and the syntactic tidiness, not to mention the mathematical underpinning (though at least being based in some sense on the untyped lambda calculus with a tiny core). However, it has all of the features one would want, can be optimized for speed, and has its famous as-yet unbeatable macro system for enhancing the syntax of the language dynamically. I have made a proof-by-argument that a simple replacement of defun with defmacro + quote yields lazy-like behavior in Lisp, so in theory you can have some of what's nice about Haskell. One point of aesthetics in Lisp's favor, apart from these benefits, is that it permits source code in UTF-8, meaning you can actually use Greek letters for variables in your source code, unlike basically every other programming language on the planet. Lisp is often, but not always, quite brief, though usually unreadable except to the initiated (macros can and should be used to help in that regard, but aren't always applied liberally enough).

Anyway, so to be honest: No, I make my money with Ruby and PHP. But I don't go near 'em at home, though I do occasionally use Ruby for my own shell-type scripts or to help a friend. All my self-study is functional programming languages: Haskell, Lisp, Erlang and OCaml. Sometimes I get curious about various different stuff (Forth/Factor, J, Smalltalk) but by-and-large those four are where I'm at. Really I suppose I'm trying to decide which one is the king. It's pretty much between Haskell and Lisp: is the lack of real-world effectiveness/pain of learning Haskell justified by its amazingly unparalleled expressiveness? Is Lisp's ancient, inherited fugliness a strength or a weakness? Does the macro system trump everything in every other language? Which one is more powerful, expressive, concise? I don't really know, nor do I really understand my own motivation for this inquiry. But it seems to be what I'm passionate about.

*cough* Lisp is definitely the most steampunk.

The preceding rant was sponsored by The Dancing Hexapod Robots and the ever-dwindling patience of forum members like you.

#48 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 11:55 PM

it sort of sounded like Hiram was making a call stack joke

It was a stretch, but thanks for noticing.

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#49 baubel

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 12:36 AM

Dan kicked me out of his place so he could write that post.

A little technological fix to a spiritual problem.


#50 Daniel Lyons

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 05:31 AM

Writing in my room doesn't keep my room mate awake quite like the two of us carousing.

#51 printmkr

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 08:40 AM

That was a great write up on Haskell and Lisp! so with ruby, have you done many implementations, web-wise? Have you used Mongrel?
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#52 peridot

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 01:30 PM

I like steampunk. I hate Lisp. I nearly failed my Lisp class in high school. Didn't work for me at all. But I did quite well in C++.

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#53 Pan Buh

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 09:29 PM

This is what they teach in highschool, now?

Damn, I'm feeling old.

#54 Daniel Lyons

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 10:43 PM

Printmkr: I've done a number of projects in Rails. One of them is going live on October 1st, at which point I wouldn't mind posting a link to the developmental version. Mongrel's great; it's running the in-development app and my blog. Unlike most web servers, it was coded as a state machine description of the HTTP protocol, compiled to C and bridged to Ruby. Usually (Apache, Lighttpd, etc.) the developer just sort of fakes it.

School is a great way to remove your interest in something genuinely interesting. They weren't teaching anything that interesting at my crappy New Mexican high schools, but then again, they also managed not to ruin it for me. If you didn't like Lisp, they probably over-emphasized the syntax without showing you the power it gives you. I'm reading Practical Common Lisp right now (free book online) and the author was smart enough to show macros before page 50.

Periodically, I think about becoming really good at C++. After a few days of frustration my friends usually talk me out of it. Last time I managed to learn template functions and the iterator traits system before giving up though, so I'm making headway, albeit about 40 hours of headway a year. I'd have a hard time picking between C++ and PHP for worst language I know, but I'd take either one over Java or Perl.

#55 TrainerAZ

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 12:44 PM

I think I'd rather build things.
bacon's great, but i'm more of a sausage eater. - CG

#56 Nymphadora

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 01:46 PM

School is a great way to remove your interest in something genuinely interesting.


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#57 Boggy

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 01:52 PM

School is part of us :heart: . Not only detenctionm, mayba a penlty???
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#58 Trid

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 01:53 PM

I think I'd rather build things.


I like a little bit of both...building things, and programming (though my geek card is in danger of revocation in light of the above conversation). I write programs to automate things that I've built...well, ok, I don't do the building that I used to, but the opportunity comes now and again. A home-brewer friend of mine and I plan on automating a super swanky home brewery...one day. We have the automation stuff, now we need more of the brewery bits :pirate: Half the fun, of course, is in the building.

I still have a burning desire to learn to weld, and I'd kill for a machine shop. One day, when I'm rich and famous...well, rich at least. Then I can realize all my steampunk-y nick nacks and fun stuff. For now, it's all by hand.

At the moment, in the design stage of my steampunk fountain, I'm stuck on the handle linkage for the spigot valve. I'm considering a direct mechanical linkage by way of bars and pivots. However, the prospect of chains and sprockets has appeal. A large handle that swings up and down, geared down to make minute adjustments to the spigot and the drip rate.

I think too much about this...
Some people are like slinkies....not really useful for anything, but you can't help but to smile when you see them tumbling down a flight of stairs.

#59 Daniel Lyons

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 10:01 PM

Sounds awesome. I'm no good at that stuff. One of my room mates is talking about building a hexapod robot akin to the ones I linked to above. That I'd like to help him program, but he'll be doing all the soldering/welding/building/assembling. I'd like to learn it; it would be awesome to have a steampunk MacBook. I have lots of inspiration for that kind of thing but no ability to implement.

#60 baubel

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 10:45 PM

Dan kicked me out to write that post too.

A little technological fix to a spiritual problem.



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