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Glaucus

The Muse Revealed

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I would like to take this opportunity to introduce this subject as well as debunk some of the myths and rumors that surround this complex liquor. I have searched through the forums here and the same false information that I find everywhere on the internet still persist. This is the place where the truth shall blossom like the fragile flowers on a gray green stem.

 

Lucid (the legal absinthe) contains Thujone, it is impossible to seperate it from Artemesia Absinthium. It does however, not cross over through the distillation process to any great extent. Where Lucid is concerned, the inventor asserts he has reverse engineered actual 19th century Absinthes found at estate sales and from other collectors, in this process he has found that the actual thujone content of these traditional absinthes just happens to fall under the legal requirements of the US (along with a successful argument in semantics with the FDA) and he has created Lucid, jumped through all the correct hoops, and here it is.

 

The problem we are facing today with all the other producers of the appertif is that the true formulaes were lost and those that produced it in the internm, what with the law screaming about thujone, assumed that there must be high concentrations in the original formulaes, which we now know is untrue.

 

Alcohol is a GABA agonist. It stimulates the production of this neurotransmitter which causes drowsiness and sleep.

 

Thujone is a GABA antagonist. It prohibits alcohol from performing that part of it's function.

 

Absinthe is therefore a type of 'speedball', it's chemical constituents at once promote the production of GABA and opens its receptors, while also closing those receptors off. This explains the 'lucid' effect that absinthe has, as oppossed to just normal drunkenness, which is associated with drowsiness.

 

Another definition would be that the inhibitory effect of the antagonist thujone allows the consumer of absinthe to reach a stage of drunkenness that one would not be able to experience; the key word here is experience, not achieve; if one were consuming normal alcohol.

 

This is the muse revealed. All the thujone allows is for the door opened in the psyche by alcohol to remain open longer, allowing the consumer to experience the effects of the alcohol as he would normally not be able to. This is also where Absinthe's sentience stems from. The word alcohol comes from the Arabic al-gwul, which means ghoul. The green fairy of wormwood mearly holds the door open for one to peer through upon the face of this familiar devil, alcohol. It brings to mind the old phrase "if you stare into the abyss long enough, the abyss begins to stare back."

 

My above passage is further proved by this quote from the National Academy of the Sciences posted in full on this site by Hiram.

 

“...[the] thujone content of old absinthe would give a detectable to major inhibitory effect beyond that of the ethanol content.”

 

Wormwood is traditionally an insecticide and used to treat intestinal worms. The herb itself has been safely used for centuries for this specific treatment. I have grown wormwood and have a lb. sitting in my cupboard. I drink it straight as a tisane with no toxic effects. Thujone itself will contribute to renal failure if taken in large doses. One should never consume the essential oil of wormwood for any purpose.

 

Lucid and those that follow like Marteau Verte Classique are to be, in my opinion, perfectly legitimate classic absinthes that contain thujone. When you drink it, you will be producing the effect in your brain that I described above.

 

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

 

:cheers:

Edited by Glaucus

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Uh, welcome. :)

 

I'm certainly no chemist, merely an end consumer like most here.

 

I like the drink as is and the differences in each.

 

The history and myths about absinthe, are some of my favorite reading.

 

There are other interests in my shallow life and if this gets much deeper, I'll just drink and lurk.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers?

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'ello Glaucus! Much of what you've stated is somewhat of a rehash, but I found it to be put in a more direct and easy to read light.

 

In any case, welcome to the forum, and perhaps you could introduce yourself over here.

 

:cheers:

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"Lucid (the legal absinthe) contains Thujone, it is impossible to seperate it from Artemesia Absinthium."

Um, not it's not.

 

"It does however, not cross over through the distillation process to any great extent."

Sure it does. (of course you would need to define "great extent")

 

the inventor asserts he has reverse engineered actual 19th century Absinthes found at estate sales and from other collectors, in this process he has found that the actual thujone content of these traditional absinthes just happens to fall under the legal requirements of the US

No, the creator asserts that he reverse engineered 19th century absinthe producing the jade line. At the time the legal requirements of the US were assumed to be 0 thujone. Even Ted's tests showed some thujone existed, putting everything above the then assumed requirements of the US.

 

while also closing those receptors off... This is the muse revealed. All the thujone allows is for the door opened in the psyche by alcohol to remain open longer

Sure, if you assume the tiny amount of tbones found in absinthe has any noticeable effect. Studies say it doesn't.

 

My above passage is further proved by this quote from the National Academy of the Sciences posted in full on this site by Hiram.

Maybe you should further read the site. Such as theFAQ or science sections.

 

are to be, in my opinion, perfectly legitimate classic absinthes that contain thujone.

Thanks, now that I have your approval, I shall buy some.

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Hi Glaucus.

This is what has happened so far:

You walked into our little party without introducing yourself and immediately jumped on your personal soapbox and started spouting a few things we already knew, a few things we may disagree with and a bunch of stuff that doesn't even register on the stable personality scale. ;)

 

Take two steps back, follow Fixedspiral's advice and introduce yourself. We're generally a pretty warm group and we'll probably welcome you to the Forum. Then, try to slide into the discussion without casting aspersions, eh? We're happy to discuss new ideas but get a little defensive if you start off telling us we're wrong about... well, damn near anything. :laugh:

 

Before this gets messy, why don't you give it another shot with a different approach and a nice introduction?

 

Thanks. :cheers:

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Hey, Guy, you apparently didn't read anything here, especially the FAQ. Otherwise you'd know that you're mostly preaching to the choir. I say mostly because many of us think you give thujone too much credit for absinthe's effects, as the actual science--meaning beyond your overly simplistic GABA stimulant/ prohibitor description--doesn't indicate a link. And nobody ever seems to be interested in any of the other chemicals in absinthe that could be causing the "lucid" effect.

 

Also you would have read the rules and known where to put your first post.

 

I sincerely doubt you've seen much, if any, of the same ol' myths and crap here unless you were misreading sarcastic posts.

 

Start over, bud.

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And this after an email where I specifically told him to read the FAQ and Read This First.

 

Glaucus, I appreciate your zeal, but as peridot points out, it's a bit misplaced and in places erroneous.

I would like to take this opportunity to introduce this subject as well as debunk some of the myths and rumors that surround this complex liquor.
That's what WS is all about. We've been doing it for several years.
I have searched through the forums here and the same false information that I find everywhere on the internet still persist.
Citations please.
This is the place where the truth shall blossom like the fragile flowers on a gray green stem.
Why thank you, I'm rather proud of it myself.
Lucid (the legal absinthe) contains Thujone, it is impossible to seperate it from Artemesia Absinthium.
Whoa, hold on there sparky. Impossible is a strong word. I think you meant "tricky, but entirely possible."
It does however, not cross over through the distillation process to any great extent.
Depends on how far you push your distillation, but I think you came close to contradicting yourself there.
Where Lucid is concerned, the inventor asserts
You mean this guy? He comes around from time to time.
The problem we are facing today with all the other producers of the appertif is that the true formulaes were lost
You mean these formulae? (formula=singular, formulae=plural)

 

There's a reason the FAQ and introductory material is there. It prevents people from "unveiling" what we've all been talking about and drinking and making for a number of years.

I have grown wormwood and have a lb. sitting in my cupboard.
I have grown wormwood and have twenty pounds of it sitting in my living room, which my wife keeps bugging me to move to the basement.

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:D

 

I am just loving this thread. Best damn thread we've had in months here!

 

Thanks Ari/Hiram/others for reminding New Guy that he is... basically... telling a bunch of chefs how to boil water.

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it is impossible to seperate it from Artemesia Absinthium.

 

It is easier than you think. Just take one of thujone-free chemotypes and in the end you arrive at absinthe which main oil's constituents are linalool, cis-epoxycimene or chrysanthenyl acetate, depending on the country, the chemotype is grown in.

 

And hello as well.

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The word alcohol comes from the Arabic al-gwul, which means ghoul.

 

I don't normally correct people, but check this out. One time for your mind...

 

"Jabir ibn Hayyan, a Muslim alchemist of the early Islamic era, invented the alembic, which facilitated the distillation of alcoholic spirits, the name used in Lebanon is al karkeh or little more formally al kattara. However, Muslims did not use his invention to produce alcoholic beverages since, in Islam, the consumption of alcohol is forbidden. Hence, his discovery was employed to distill perfume from flowers and to produce kohl, a women's eye cosmetic in which a black powder is liquefied, then converted to vapour and allowed to re-solidify.

 

The Arabs carried the art of distilling kohl to Spain from where it spread to the remainder of Europe. In these Christian lands, it took on a much different use: the production of alcoholic drinks. With the utilisation of this method of producing hard spirits, the Arabic name "al-kohl", which became alcohol, was adopted due to the similar method the Arabs used in manufacturing this cosmetic. The words in English relating to the art of distillation, besides alcohol, such as "alchemy", "alchemist", and "alembic" attest to an Arab origin.

 

Traditionally, arak was generally of local or village manufacture, but in the last few decades it has increasingly been produced in large manufacturing plants. It has remained the preference of those who enjoy alcoholic drinks in the Middle East, in competition with the many drinks imported from the West."

 

The above text came from here. Wikipedia, I know, but the explanation of other terms seem to make sense as well. I don't know any Arabic myself so I will not contest that Al-gwul stands for ghoul.

 

Just some helpful info to tighten your essay.

 

Cheers.

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Poor: Thank you, informative post. I picked the particular etymological description to aid the visualization that followed.

 

Absinthist: Thank you very much. You have provided a springboard for some more research. You are obviously well trained in organic and inorganic chemistry. Perhaps you could 'dumb' down that statement for me?

 

Ari: Yours was the best reply! Absinthist answered your first two. I don't know about the third, my research doesn't support that. Could you provide some resources? The same goes for the fourth.

 

OMG_Bill: I too enjoy the myths that surround Absinthe but they are unfortunately aiding the prohibition. I don't think the quality of the myths will be harmed by providing the truth. I have talked to young kids in my area about Absinthe and have received replies like "Yeah, me and my friends got some Absinthe from Canada, that stuff doesn't make you hallucinate, totally bunk." and other such things. These are the attitudes that have kept it prohibited for so long and have allowed unscrupulous distillers to pack as much thujone into artificially colored liquors as they can manage, further destroying the heritage of Absinthe.

 

Hiram and T73: I understand you are creator/vetenerated member(s) and have the power of administrators here but I am going to say this anyway. I really was looking forward to hearing both of your opinions on the subject of the post and all you offered was juinor high school social circle net-drivel. Forgive my bluntness but I am sorely dissappointed.

 

This post is my introduction.

 

I'm off for class and then work so I will check in later this evening for your responses. It is nice to meet all of you regardless of what your initial responses were.

 

Namaste

 

Glaucus

Edited by Glaucus

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I am a sanctimonious, little missionary and an attention whore. And I'm way out of my league here.

yes.gif

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Perhaps you could 'dumb' down that statement for me?

 

The following articles: "Essential oil of Aa from the Spanish Pyrenees" by Arino, "Chemotaxonomy of wormwood" by Chialva, or "Aa in Vilnius" by Judzentiene are a nice reading in that matter (if you do not have access to them, PM me for copies).

 

In one sentence: you take such a wormwood plant, make absinthe with it and the result is thujone-free.

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Hiram and T73: I understand you are creator/vetenerated member(s) and have the power of administrators here but I am going to say this anyway. I really was looking forward to hearing both of your opinions on the subject of the post and all you offered was juinor high school social circle net-drivel.

I disagree.

Hiram responded to your astonishingly condescending first post on his forum with an itemized list of specific responses. You've completely ignored the important question he asked: where are your citations of the false information you claim to have found here?

 

This is an important point. Make sure to address it with your next response.

 

It's the assumption that our forum is filled with myth and misinformation that makes you feel justified in acting like the bringer of truth. I think that in searching this forum for myth and misinformation to quote for Hiram, you'll find that there isn't much.

 

I think you'll find that a lot of intelligent people here have devoted a lot more time and energy to the advanced study of absinthe, its history, chemistry and distillation than you can imagine. Take a hint from the fact that you have to ask Absinthist to "dumb down" his response so that you can understand it.

 

Maybe you might not know it all?

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seperate

 

Aside from your apparently urgent need to dazzle us with in- depth personal knowledge of every facet of the Green Fairy's complex, and almost paradoxical nature, your spelling seems to leave something to be desired, but that's a completely separate issue.

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...all you offered was juinor high school social circle net-drivel. Forgive my bluntness but I am sorely dissappointed.

I take it you haven't been by the LouchedLounge then...

This post is my introduction.

Then perhaps, had you taken my advice, this thread would not have taken the turn it has.

 

 

 

 

edit- omission of restatement

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I was going to let someone else take this because I've been taking some time away from the forum, but ...

My above passage is further proved by this quote from the National Academy of the Sciences posted in full on this site by Hiram.

 

"...[the] thujone content of old absinthe would give a detectable to major inhibitory effect beyond that of the ethanol content." Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

The original quote is not "from the National Academy of the Sciences", it's from an article they published in 2000 entitled α-Thujone (the active component of absinthe): γ-Aminobutyric acid type A receptor modulation and metabolic detoxification. The full relevant passage (emphasis mine) is:
However, the 10 ppm (66 μM) upper limit of the European Commission and particularly the 260 ppm (1710 μM) thujone content of old absinthe (6) would give a detectable to major inhibitory effect beyond that of the ethanol content. Current low levels of α- and β-thujone in absinthe are of much less toxicological concern than the ethanol content (6).
The citation (6) is to Strang, J., Arnold, W. N. & Peters, T. (1999) Br. Med. J. 319, 1590–1592.

 

It's been demonstrated by numerous researchers (Breaux, Lachenmeier, Kuballa, Padosch, Kröner) that the hypothesized 260 ppm is unsupported.

This post is my introduction. ... It is nice to meet all of you regardless of what your initial responses were.

If you ever actually read the introductory posts over in the Newcomers Introduction section, you'll find that member's initial responses to new people are most often correlative with the initial attitude of the new guy. In general, coming on with arrogant condescension, Grand Announcements of common knowledge, and a contempt for local custom (i.e. posting an introduction in the Newcomers Introduction section) are not well received. You didn't come in indicating that you were happy to be here and that we had something of value to offer, you came in as if you were here to do us the great favor of disabusing us of our folly.

 

I'd like to know what you did read here that led you believe that here, "the same false information that I find everywhere on the internet still persist", particularly since everything you cited in "rebuttal" may be found here.

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It's been demonstrated by numerous researchers (Breaux, Lachenmeier, Kuballa, Padosch, Kröner) that the hypothesized 260 ppm is unsupported.

Yah, for more on that, Glaucus, go here.

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Hiram and T73: I understand you are creator/vetenerated member(s) and have the power of administrators here but I am going to say this anyway. I really was looking forward to hearing both of your opinions on the subject of the post and all you offered was juinor high school social circle net-drivel. Forgive my bluntness but I am sorely dissappointed.

WHA...! WHY YOU LITTLE.....!

 

FYI: You misspelled venerated, junior and disappointed. I'm really disappointed.

 

Lively thread, though!! WOO HOO!

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Lucid and those that follow like Marteau Verte Classique are to be, in my opinion, perfectly legitimate classic absinthes that contain thujone. When you drink it, you will be producing the effect in your brain that I described above.

 

Hiram and T73: I understand you are creator/vetenerated member(s) and have the power of administrators here but I am going to say this anyway. I really was looking forward to hearing both of your opinions on the subject of the post and all you offered was juinor high school social circle net-drivel. Forgive my bluntness but I am sorely dissappointed.

 

Something tells me you don't know who created the Marteau.

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