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Hill's Czech style Absinth


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#91 Hill

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 01:13 PM

Hello all again,

I am sorry for my rudness in some of my posts. I am glad that some people will give me a chance here. I can see that the calculations of some people of the dates and what not are causing confusion, at the very least it proves that after drinking absinthe people can still do math. ;) I do not have the proof everyone seeks with me right now but I will get it and post it first here and explain the truth about all this. In the meantime please don't ask me for proof. I can see that some of these points are valid ones and they should be acknowledged. I am an auto technician by trade but because of an injury I have begun promoting Absinth here in Canada. I know lots of people like to act like they know something who don't really know the truth and end up spreading false truths, which causes alot of harm and headaches for people that do know the truth.

My question is how old does something have to be to be called a tradition? Even something that has been around for 5 years lets say, can be called a tradition no?

The issue that bothers me is that people who really are not qualified to call our Absinth fake, are. Let me explain why I think this. Someone who makes Absinthe is obviously a person who can have an accurate opinion on whether or not another competitors drink is a quality product based on his distilling process, not just on taste. Only a distiller who knows how to make all types of drinks and who is not self taught but taught by knowledge that has been passed down since the 1500's or earlier is qualified to make the decision of how a certain drink shall be classified. This is why most manufacturers of alcohol do not bash competitors on the internet. They know it would make themselves look desperate and they don't really know how their competitors do things, since they are mostly kept a secret.

Another issue I have is with people saying that Czechs are hurting the Absinthe industry. I am not defending their marketing ways but realize something please. The only reason that you are able to sample 100's of different types of Absinthe's now on the market is because of what you call "clever or false marketing by Czech Absinth makers". People are attracted to what is or was illegal. The whole French ban on Absinthe is what attracts new people to try Absinthe. This then in turn lead to original manufacturers of historical Absinthe to start making it again and other new companies to try and copy the old recipes. On the flip side of that it is hurting the case of making Absinthe legal in the USA but the case of why it should be illegal in the USA was made along time ago when Czechs were not known for Absinth making except by people in Czech. So the way I look at it is yes the Czech comapnies are hurting the US Absinthe drinking peoples chances of making it legal in their country but without this unfounded hype, which I think goes both ways, their would not be any Absinthe around and their would be no wormwood society and there would be no possibility of buying Absinthe on-line from whoever. Because of this I think that the positive impact of Czech Absinth greatly outweights the negative things caused by a few bandwagon jumping, quick money making idiots.

I want Hill's Absinth and one other comapany that we work closely with, The Green Tree Distillery to be seperated from the rest of Czech Absinth makers. I want us to go down in history as a quality distilled Absinth and a new evolution in Absinth drinks. I realize that this might require some proof and I am hoping that very shortly I will have it for you. In the mean time, if like some say I am on trial, don't make accustions based on your opinion or personal taste, make them with facts as if this were a trial. To accuse someone of a crime with no evidence is in itself a serious issue and can make you look bad in the end. The fact is that no one here knows our recipe or our distillation process and therefore should not be accusing us of being fake. I am offering to be a liason between you guys and Hill's directly, so some questions answeres will have to wait until I have an explanation from Hill's directly. As I say I am not a proffesional distiller.

When I educate people on Absinthe I tell them the truth. I tell them that what we have is a different type of Absinth. That the very old Swiss Absinthe tastes quite a bit different. I offer them both to taste and when they ask about all the hype around Absinthe I say that it doesn't make you hallucinate although drinking enough 70% alc. drinks will make you see in three's. I tell them that every alcohol produces a differnt buzz. Beer gives you a differnt drunk then wine for example. Hill's Absinth makes most people I drink it with feel very talkitive and alert. I also find it to give me strange dreams. This is however just me and I don't claim it to be a fact.

Absinthe was a drink that was not produced for a very long time before it was banned in many countries. It was never a super high quality drink. It was made to replace the grape shortage and therefore wine shortage in France. People were looking at ways to distill alcohol from anything at that time.

Another qustion I have is that if Absinthe was never banned England why did it never take off there before Czech Absinth? Why did they feel they do not have to bann it? You mean to tell me that of all the people that travelled to Spain from England had never discovered Absinthe or tasted it in a bar there? You mean to say that even though France still made a wormwood free Absinthe that know one in England or the US who is well travelled thought it might be a good business venture to start making reproduction pre-ban Absinthe? I have found in my tastings 3 types of people. A person who has been brainwashed by all the historical French propiganda about Absinthe and the Czech propaganda and they want to try it to get high or something stupid like that. Then you have the group of people who have no preconceptions about Absinth because they have never heard of it before and they just want to try it. The third group of people are more educated about Absinthe and even though they do not absolutly love the taste of Swiss or French style Absinthe they really want to like it because they like what it stands for and the era that it was popular. These are the people that keep drinking Absinthe until they develope a taste for it and start to enjoy it more. This is why tastes are different. When people first drink coffee as a kid or beer for that matter, they don't like it. It takes a while before they aquire the taste. Therefore to have a few tastes of a product and declare it to be awful really means nothing. Every product should however be treated with recpect I think. The only time critisizing is justified in my opinion is when the manufacturer uses harmful chemicals or preservitives in their products when really there is no need to.

Thanks.

#92 Brian Robinson

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 01:52 PM

Hill,

Thanks for the very well thought out, and lengthy reply. Only a couple of things I wanted to touch on.

Absinthe was a drink that was not produced for a very long time before it was banned in many countries. It was never a super high quality drink.


Then how is it that many of the pre-ban bottles that still exist today are considered some of the best that money can buy? I have tried nearly all of the commercially available 'top of the line' absinthes, and they still come in a distant second to most of the pre-bans I've tried. I know some of that has to do with aging, but at the same time, they wouldn't have aged well if they weren't good quality to begin with.

When people first drink coffee as a kid or beer for that matter, they don't like it. It takes a while before they aquire the taste. Therefore to have a few tastes of a product and declare it to be awful really means nothing.

I liked both beer and coffee from the first drink I took of both. So yes, that holds true for some people, but not for others. I've been drinking absinthe in one form or another since I lived in Spain back in 1997. It started off with Spanish absinthe along with Absinth Original, Sebor, Staro, etc. For most of the Czech, I didn't like then, and I still don't like now, after drinking absinthe for 10 years. I find them too one dimensional and gimicky.

I respect the products as liquor, but not as absinthe. None of the original recipes I've seen so far come close to what the end product is for a typical absinthe. if you can show differently, I'd humbly appologize and admit my fault. If your company makes an effort to separate yourself from French and Swiss absinthe, then you're in the minority.

My question is how old does something have to be to be called a tradition? Even something that has been around for 5 years lets say, can be called a tradition no?

It doesn't have to be long, but at the same time, if there was a gap in production of several decades, you can't include those decades as part of the tradition. The tradition technically would have started in the 90s.

Only a distiller who knows how to make all types of drinks and who is not self taught but taught by knowledge that has been passed down since the 1500's or earlier is qualified to make the decision of how a certain drink shall be classified.

There are quite a few VERY knowledgable and very successful distillers who have already weighed in on this topic. You just haven't liked the answers they gave you.

People are attracted to what is or was illegal.

Very true in some cases. I wasn't originally enticed by the fact that it was illegal in the states, nor because of its perported effects. I was introduced to it by someone when I was living in Spain, where it has never been banned, so I didn't even find out about the legal status until after I'd developed an appreciation for it. Then I got more into it because of the wonderful history the drink has.

if Absinthe was never banned England why did it never take off there before Czech Absinth?

Different cultures have different tastes. Many Americans don't like Absinthe because people aren't raised with the flavors of anis and fennel as part of their normal diet. France, Italy, Spain, etc, on the other hand are completely opposite.

Every product should however be treated with recpect I think.

True. To a point. Certain products that piggy back on the reputation of a completely different tasting product (not to mention different ingredients) just because it will increase sales isn't necessarily a respectable action. It is obviously a good business decision, but still one of questionable respect.
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#93 Ari (Eric Litton)

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:02 PM

The issue that bothers me is that people who really are not qualified to call our Absinth fake, are.

Many people are using the manuals, writings and details of absinthe's history from the late 18th century to the ban. If the Duplais manuals and pre-ban absinthe producers (among other sources) are not qualified to help us define absinthe (the product they made popular), who is?

I tell them that what we have is a different type of Absinth.

Then I assume you are willing to remove the connection you make to an anise-based drink popular in the 19th century?

Another qustion I have is that if Absinthe was never banned England why did it never take off there before Czech Absinth?

From what I understand it never took off in England because it was French. It was seen as a symbol of french destruction/decadence and the racism of the time kept most English away.
I wonder how many products were aggressively marketed in England before Hills?
Marketing has made a name for many drinks in the US. The entire vodka revolution was thanks to marketing. It wasn't because americans hated plain alcohol but because it was never heavily pushed over other drinks.


As a general note, we aren't talking about someone's art project that they asked opinions on but products/companys that use misinformation to take peoples money. This is not excusable (it is also not every czech company, and it's not just the Czech, some French and German companies do exactly the same). People should be able to make a choice based on accurate information. If these companies aren't willing to take the hard questions or criticisms then they shouldn't be willing to take money based on their claims.
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#94 peridot

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:03 PM

My question is how old does something have to be to be called a tradition? Even something that has been around for 5 years lets say, can be called a tradition no?

Ultimately, making something that is utterly different in flavour and appearance from an established type of liquor and giving it the same name strikes me, personally, as dishonest. Things do change over time. New versions of different types of liquors evolve from previous versions. But the problem is that it doesn't look like Bohemian-style absinth ever did that. It looks like it just appeared out of nowhere. The Bohemian absinth tradition looks like it was manufactures out of whole cloth, not like it was something that grew over time.

Only a distiller who knows how to make all types of drinks and who is not self taught but taught by knowledge that has been passed down since the 1500's or earlier is qualified to make the decision of how a certain drink shall be classified.

Respectfully, I vehemently disagree. The information on how to make absinthe is out there. Many of us here are educated in the processes enough to even identify changes in process and ingredients just by taste. We have no evidence that the drink we call absinthe existed in the 1500s so while distilling knowledge from then is useful, it's not going to be absinthe-distilling information. I don't know that going to any school in europe would have taught how to distill absinthe or if they would have taught it well. I personally wouldn't look at the community consensus of enthusiasts and connoisseurs as being the result of know-nothing speculation and if you're going to dismiss us that way you have absolutely no reason to be here. You haven't demonstrated very much knowledge about any absinthe tradition at all but don't expect everyone else to be as limited as you. There is a wealth of knowledge within this community, at this site and at Oxygenee's many sites, which we all have access to.

Another issue I have is with people saying that Czechs are hurting the Absinthe industry. I am not defending their marketing ways but realize something please. The only reason that you are able to sample 100's of different types of Absinthe's now on the market is because of what you call "clever or false marketing by Czech Absinth makers"... I think that the positive impact of Czech Absinth greatly outweights the negative things caused by a few bandwagon jumping, quick money making idiots.

Sure the Czech movement sparked new interest in absinthe but that's where anything we owe it ends. It's like reviving a man just to stab him to death. Do not underestimate the massive, horrible effect that the "few bandwagon jumping, quick money making idiots" have caused. Again, I'm not blaming Hill's for this directly, but don't think that Hill's competitors are few or their impact is minor. Their efforts are ubiquitous on the web and in magazine ads and make absinthe look like a dangerous narcotic, and sometimes even a poison. It doesn't help our efforts to get the FDA to change its stance in the USA, but the bigger issue for those of us who love its history and legacy is that it falsifies the history of absinthe and strips it of dignity entirely. Make no mistake; that is much more important to most of us than the FDA; it ruins absinthe's reputation and image worldwide.

I want Hill's Absinth and one other comapany that we work closely with, The Green Tree Distillery to be seperated from the rest of Czech Absinth makers. I want us to go down in history as a quality distilled Absinth and a new evolution in Absinth drinks. I realize that this might require some proof and I am hoping that very shortly I will have it for you. In the mean time, if like some say I am on trial, don't make accustions based on your opinion or personal taste, make them with facts as if this were a trial. To accuse someone of a crime with no evidence is in itself a serious issue and can make you look bad in the end. The fact is that no one here knows our recipe or our distillation process and therefore should not be accusing us of being fake. I am offering to be a liason between you guys and Hill's directly, so some questions answeres will have to wait until I have an explanation from Hill's directly. As I say I am not a proffesional distiller.

Understand that our primary assertions are that Hill's Absinth is not absinthe at all and that there is no Czech Absinth tradition from before the 1990s. Any statements that Hill's is an inferior product are based on personal taste, the fact that it isn't similar to traditional absinthe, and the fact that, without any ultimate basis from which to judge its quality the only thing we have to compare it to is other products that share its name. By our absinthe standards Hill's is inferior.

Absinthe was a drink that was not produced for a very long time before it was banned in many countries.

That depends on what "long time" means to you.

It was never a super high quality drink. It was made to replace the grape shortage and therefore wine shortage in France. People were looking at ways to distill alcohol from anything at that time.

This is a case of knowing enough historical details to get it entirely wrong. Absinthe was being produced before the grape shortage and some brands were of exceptional quality. Absinthe was not produced based on the idea of "let's just distill alcohol from anything."

You mean to tell me that of all the people that travelled to Spain from England had never discovered Absinthe or tasted it in a bar there? You mean to say that even though France still made a wormwood free Absinthe that know one in England or the US who is well travelled thought it might be a good business venture to start making reproduction pre-ban Absinthe?

Please understand pastis serves as an absinthe substitute to some but its herbal profile is quite different from most traditional absinthes. It is far more anisey than absinthe, as is most Spanish absenta. I already addressed this: people who dislike anise are not going to enjoy products that taste like nothing but anise. Traditional, well-made absinthe (which was no longer produced after the Spanish companies changed their recipes to be almost pure anise flavour, decades before the Czech absinth revolution) has an herbal balance that many people who don't enjoy anise can enjoy.

By the way, you did ask earlier what makes me qualified to ask you questions. Well, as a relatively junior and inexperienced member here, I'm a broke guy in Alabama who has managed, despite his extremely meagre income and having only attended one absinthe tasting, to have tasted more than 40 absinthes in about a year and a half. Probably means nothing to you but I put forth a lot of money and effort to educate myself and have read up on a ton of history. In other words, it really does matter to me a lot. But like I said, I'm junior and my knowledge and experience are dwarfed by many here who are also asking you questions. I'll be happy to have anything I say corrected by you or the more knowledgeable members here. But just as I already know that any other members here would provide me with a reference, info about where to find a reference, or some other proof of what they say, I am expecting you to eventually do the same.

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#95 Pan Buh

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:09 PM

Welcome Tom. I suspect many here have been waiting for my appearance in this discussion, as I reside in the homeland of your progenitors. And a lovely land it is. :cheers:

Unfortunately, I am more than a bit weary at the moment and in real need of a good night's rest after a weekend vylet with my family. So, for the nonce, I welcome you heartily to our virtual family and look forward to joining the conversation with you when time allows me a clearer head. (Oh, and Dr. Noire, I'm not sure if I should kiss you or kick you for calling me a "boy" - certainly not as an issue of gender, but only of age and respect. ;) )

I will arrange a tour of our facility and then you will see why we call our drink Absinth.


I'm here and I'd be willing.

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#96 printmkr

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:21 PM

If you do get a tour, and if Tom would allow it as not revealing too many product secrets, please bring a camera so we can all take the tour virtually! I for one would think it as being very educational!
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#97 Hill

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:52 PM

[quote]Absinthe was a drink that was not produced for a very long time before it was banned in many countries. It was never a super high quality drink. [/quote]

Then how is it that many of the pre-ban bottles that still exist today are considered some of the best that money can buy? I have tried nearly all of the commercially available 'top of the line' absinthes, and they still come in a distant second to most of the pre-bans I've tried. I know some of that has to do with aging, but at the same time, they wouldn't have aged well if they weren't good quality to begin with.

This is you opinion. I recpect that but what I state are not my own opinions about taste, they are what I have found while researching Absinthe. Absinthe itself is not considered by many distillers to be a super high quality drink.

[quote]When people first drink coffee as a kid or beer for that matter, they don't like it. It takes a while before they aquire the taste. Therefore to have a few tastes of a product and declare it to be awful really means nothing.[/quote]
I liked both beer and coffee from the first drink I took of both. So yes, that holds true for some people, but not for others. I've been drinking absinthe in one form or another since I lived in Spain back in 1997. It started off with Spanish absinthe along with Absinth Original, Sebor, Staro, etc. For most of the Czech, I didn't like then, and I still don't like now, after drinking absinthe for 10 years. I find them too one dimensional and gimicky.

Again that's you but my point is that tastes change and things you used to dislike, you may learn to like later on. Tastes change in humans.

I respect the products as liquor, but not as absinthe. None of the original recipes I've seen so far come close to what the end product is for a typical absinthe. if you can show differently, I'd humbly appologize and admit my fault. If your company makes an effort to separate yourself from French and Swiss absinthe, then you're in the minority.

That's great. So if you recpect the product as a liquor than you must aggree that some of the comments on our Absinth, that it is a horrible swill for example, by people are unfounded and show their true nature of just hating all Czech Absinth.

[quote] My question is how old does something have to be to be called a tradition? Even something that has been around for 5 years lets say, can be called a tradition no?[/quote]
It doesn't have to be long, but at the same time, if there was a gap in production of several decades, you can't include those decades as part of the tradition. The tradition technically would have started in the 90s.

And what about the gap in production from all the other so-called traditional Absinth makers. What about their gap? Some of them just started producing recently. They produced for such a short period yet because it happened along time ago it's traditional?

[quote]Only a distiller who knows how to make all types of drinks and who is not self taught but taught by knowledge that has been passed down since the 1500's or earlier is qualified to make the decision of how a certain drink shall be classified.[/quote]
There are quite a few VERY knowledgable and very successful distillers who have already weighed in on this topic. You just haven't liked the answers they gave you.

Your not getting my point. I am not trying to compare myself to people in this forum. I am comparing my great uncle Radomil. I am sure lots of people here know more than me on the details of distilling Absinthe. What I am saying is that classifying an alcohol should be done by people who go to school to learn the trade of distilling and whio have been doing it all their lives. Not anyone else. Would you say that a person who learns how to fix cars from his own experience is as qualified as a mechanic that went to school for 5 years? I am not trying to say that people in this forum are self taught idiots but just swallow your pride a little and realize that my uncle Radomil has alot more qualification than most people on this forum.


[quote]People are attracted to what is or was illegal.[/quote]
Very true in some cases. I wasn't originally enticed by the fact that it was illegal in the states, nor because of its perported effects. I was introduced to it by someone when I was living in Spain, where it has never been banned, so I didn't even find out about the legal status until after I'd developed an appreciation for it. Then I got more into it because of the wonderful history the drink has.

Ok

[quote]if Absinthe was never banned England why did it never take off there before Czech Absinth?[/quote]
Different cultures have different tastes. Many Americans don't like Absinthe because people aren't raised with the flavors of anis and fennel as part of their normal diet. France, Italy, Spain, etc, on the other hand are completely opposite.

That's right. That's my point. With our different Czech Absinth we have introduced people to Absinth especially in North America that normally would not like the drink. This has made it more popular than in the entire history of the drink! The spin off helps people to then go on and try more traditional Absinthe and helps you to then be able to by the Absinthe that you love.

[quote]Every product should however be treated with recpect I think. [/quote]
True. To a point. Certain products that piggy back on the reputation of a completely different tasting product (not to mention different ingredients) just because it will increase sales isn't necessarily a respectable action. It is obviously a good business decision, but still one of questionable respect.
[/quote]

We may have piggy backed on the reputation of a different tasting product but it looks like the originals are now piggy backing on our success. This is a fact. The more traditional Absinthe's only recently started making Absinthe, because of our success. Do you here us complaining that others are using our success to make their Absinthe? It's just when they knock ours that it pisses us off.

#98 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:53 PM

Even something that has been around for 5 years lets say, can be called a tradition no?

Not in my opinion. Semantics is a game often played in marketing. "Tradition" literally means "handed down" from generation to generation and that's the sense that's assumed by most people. Because of this, "tradition" is accepted to mean that it's something worthy of this sort of preservation, and therefore valuable. Hence, it is used in marketing to convey the impression of value and quality, something that has withstood the test of time.

Hill's absinth was possibly made for part of 1947 and not again until 1990. In my eyes, this does not a tradition make.

Only a distiller who knows how to make all types of drinks and who is not self taught but taught by knowledge that has been passed down since the 1500's or earlier is qualified to make the decision of how a certain drink shall be classified.

This is not true. Anyone well-acquainted enough with a class of spirit can tell whether or not something qualifies. Usually by tasting it. Why do you feel qualified to tell us who is qualified to make this distinction?

Another issue I have is with people saying that Czechs are hurting the Absinthe industry.

Czechs are not hurting the absinthe industry, bad marketing practices are. These practicise are most commonly associated with Czech brands.

The only reason that you are able to sample 100's of different types of Absinthe's now on the market is because of what you call "clever or false marketing

That doesn't make it right. This is false logic. You should take some time to read through this link provided by Jaded Prol above. It will help you avoid clouding the issue with faulty reasoning.

In the mean time, if like some say I am on trial, don't make accustions based on your opinion or personal taste, make them with facts as if this were a trial. To accuse someone of a crime with no evidence is in itself a serious issue and can make you look bad in the end. The fact is that no one here knows our recipe or our distillation process and therefore should not be accusing us of being fake.

The recipe or distillation process are irrelevant if they don't produce something which resembles absinthe. If it's not fake, it is a very poor example of absinthe. Simply distilling wormwood and adding other essences is not enough to justify calling a product absinthe. The claim of this product deserving to be called a "different type of absinthe" is what I take exception to.

Absinthe was a drink that was not produced for a very long time before it was banned in many countries.

There are refernces to absinthe as a spiritous drink which go bach to the mid 1700s. It wasn't banned until the kate 19th century, and early 20th century in it's birthplace. I'd say it had a pretty good run.

It was made to replace the grape shortage and therefore wine shortage in France. People were looking at ways to distill alcohol from anything at that time.

See my comment about the mid 1700s. The grape blight wasn't until the mid to late 1800s.

Another qustion I have is that if Absinthe was never banned England why did it never take off there before Czech Absinth?

What bearing does that have on anything? As I pointed out earlier, we acknowledge that the revival started with Hill's, promoted by George Rowley (British) and Green Bohemia. If George had found absinthe in the bars of Spain, no one would have ever heard of Hill's, and the notion of Czech absinth would never have taken off.

Just because that's where the recent attention to absinthe started doesn't make it absinthe. Since then many people have researched and learned the actual history and have discovered that Czech style absinth is a modern novelty, unrelated to what historical absinthe is.

We feel that it's unfair and misleading to market such products, using the heritage of something completely different, to uninformed or misinformed consumers.

I personally am of the opinion that it is a form of cultural plagiarism.

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#99 Hill

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:12 PM

Many people are using the manuals, writings and details of absinthe's history from the late 18th century to the ban. If the Duplais manuals and pre-ban absinthe producers (among other sources) are not qualified to help us define absinthe (the product they made popular), who is?



I have already stated who I think is qualified. Whoever says this is BS is also saying that school is useless and that there is no need to go to school as it doesn't make you any more qualified.



Then I assume you are willing to remove the connection you make to an anise-based drink popular in the 19th century?



How can I remove the connection? What connection? Show me some concrete things that you mean. We do have a connection. The drink we make is closely based on what Absinth originally was.

From what I understand it never took off in England because it was French. It was seen as a symbol of french destruction/decadence and the racism of the time kept most English away.



So now English like the French and it's OK? I'm sure if you go to England you will find out that this not true for most people. The rivalry still exsists today as strong as it ever was.

As a general note, we aren't talking about someone's art project that they asked opinions on but products/companys that use misinformation to take peoples money. This is not excusable (it is also not every czech company, and it's not just the Czech, some French and German companies do exactly the same). People should be able to make a choice based on accurate information. If these companies aren't willing to take the hard questions or criticisms then they shouldn't be willing to take money based on their claims.



Again where is the proof. Everyone wants proof from me where is yours. I am willing to wait as you are waiting for mine. Also I don't know but but it sure sounds like from what I read by your members that every Czech company is a fraud. I have yet to find some real hard core French/ German Absinth bashing. I hope I don't find it anyway, it's for sad people.

#100 Brian Robinson

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:26 PM

"That's great. So if you recpect the product as a liquor than you must aggree that some of the comments on our Absinth, that it is a horrible swill for example, by people are unfounded and show their true nature of just hating all Czech Absinth."

No. They are simply giving their opinion based on their experiences with the drink. There is also an absinthe tasting guide that can be used to make an unbiased judgement of a glass of absinthe. But, I know what you're going to say: that sheet is made for French and Swiss absinthe.

If you're willing to put some work into it, I'd love to see what a tasting guide would be for Bohemian style absinthe. That may provide us with some clear and concise information on the expectations of your type of absinth.

This is you opinion. I recpect that but what I state are not my own opinions about taste, they are what I have found while researching Absinthe. Absinthe itself is not considered by many distillers to be a super high quality drink.

Mu judgements about quality are based on recipes and ingredients, as well as taste. I'd like to talk to a distiller who's had a chance to look at the duplais recipe and see whether he/she would consider it a low quality production.

I am not trying to say that people in this forum are self taught idiots but just swallow your pride a little and realize that my uncle Radomil has alot more qualification than most people on this forum.

True, there are plenty of people in this forum that don't know much of anything about the proper production and distillation of absinthe. However, I would postulate that there are several members here who have just as much, or more expertise than your beloved uncle.

By the way, what EXACTLY does your uncle say on the subject of the differences between Bohemian/French/Swiss absinthes? Would he say they are, in essence the same thing, and can be marketed as such?

We may have piggy backed on the reputation of a different tasting product but it looks like the originals are now piggy backing on our success. This is a fact.

No, that's called spin, not fact. They may have benefitted from the reintroduction of absinthe/absinth, but they aren't piggy backing on the Czech reputation. The new modern absinthes are relating the history of the original French and Swiss absinthes. They have a completely different marketing strategy. And they actually ARE basing their recipes on historic ones from classic French/Swiss etc brands. Ted Breaux and Jade is a perfect example of that.


Also I don't know but but it sure sounds like from what I read by your members that every Czech company is a fraud.

Hill, I gotta call you out. That's a complete lie. There have been plenty of examples laid out in this thread alone that shows what we don't like in ANY distributor of absinthe/absinth, etc. It has nothing to do with where the product comes from. You must have missed the discussions on Oliva, Doubbs, the current Pernod product, etc. See not only the post I linked, but also posts by WBT and my original post amongst others on the first page of this thread. These are our major arguments. You'll see they are fairly concise and do not talk about specific countries. They merely delineate what we consider to be questionable business practices that could be done by any company in any country.
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#101 peridot

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:29 PM

This is you opinion. I recpect that but what I state are not my own opinions about taste, they are what I have found while researching Absinthe. Absinthe itself is not considered by many distillers to be a super high quality drink.

Who? What distillers?

That's great. So if you recpect the product as a liquor than you must aggree that some of the comments on our Absinth, that it is a horrible swill for example, by people are unfounded and show their true nature of just hating all Czech Absinth.

No, it's not unfounded. If people don't like it they don't like it, dammit. How many people in the world have drink-tasting credentials? Are their opinions the only ones that are valid? If someone doesn't like a product they have every right to say what they want about it. And I'd personally trust the opinions of people who I know have extensive tasting experience over the opinions of the masses when I'm deciding what I'm going to buy.

And what about the gap in production from all the other so-called traditional Absinth makers. What about their gap? Some of them just started producing recently. They produced for such a short period yet because it happened along time ago it's traditional?

They're being produced based on old recipes and manuals. Documented ones. And don't forget that there has been an unbroken tradition of absinthe distilling in Switzerland since absinthe was banned. We have all sorts of evidence to piece together what tradtional absinthe was.

What I am saying is that classifying an alcohol should be done by people who go to school to learn the trade of distilling and whio have been doing it all their lives. Not anyone else. Would you say that a person who learns how to fix cars from his own experience is as qualified as a mechanic that went to school for 5 years? I am not trying to say that people in this forum are self taught idiots but just swallow your pride a little and realize that my uncle Radomil has alot more qualification than most people on this forum.

Look, we're not going to accept on good faith that your great uncle knows best and that he would never create a crappy product. It's just not going to happen. Besides the fact that we really have no way of knowing if he knows jack about absinthe specifically to begin with, there are any number of reasons why people with great qualifications do things that don't meet their own standards. I personally never take my car to a mechanic anymore because, although they're qualified, they lie to me to try to get more money out of me and then end up doing a bad job on what I asked them to fix. I fix my own car or take it to a friend who is self-taught and has done tons of independent research on his craft in order to make sure his own vehicles run. I trust that he's motivated only by doing a great job and not by greed because he only charges me beer.

That's right. That's my point. With our different Czech Absinth we have introduced people to Absinth especially in North America that normally would not like the drink.

If people don't like a product you can't just make an entirely different product in taste and appearance and call it the same thing. If people don't like absinthe then they don't like absinthe.

We may have piggy backed on the reputation of a different tasting product but it looks like the originals are now piggy backing on our success. This is a fact. The more traditional Absinthe's only recently started making Absinthe, because of our success. Do you here us complaining that others are using our success to make their Absinthe?

So what?

Here, let me try a different tact. I want to see if you can answer something and I'm very serious about it. The traditional absinthe we drink has several very specific characteristics. Even the most liberal definition of it says that it has to have both anise and grande wormwood (more anise), be distilled (whether by alcohol or steam distillation... therefore oil mixes count), and be at least 45% alcohol. Many people here are of the opinion that fennel is required, some people think oil mixes shouldn't count, and there's at least one person here who feels that hyssop is required. However, there are some basic things we can all agree on. Besides the basics, there are certain other traditional herbs, such as coriander, melissa, and pontica that are common enough that many of us can identify them in the flavour profile of many absinthes that contain them. In your opinion, what are some characteristics of Bohemian-style absinth? What would one be looking for when one tastes a Bohemian-style absinth, other than "effect?" This may help us to understand more clearly how you define quality.

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#102 Brian Robinson

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:36 PM

And don't forget that there has been an unbroken tradition of absinthe distilling in Switzerland since absinthe was banned. We have all sorts of evidence to piece together what tradtional absinthe was.

Also don't forget, Pernod continued production in Spain after the ban went into effect in France.

In your opinion, what are some characteristics of Bohemian-style absinth? What would one be looking for when one tastes a Bohemian-style absinth, other than "effect?" This may help us to understand more clearly how you define quality.

Wow, you and I were thinking completely alike as we were typing our responses! :cheers:
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#103 Ari (Eric Litton)

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:44 PM

they are what I have found while researching Absinthe. Absinthe itself is not considered by many distillers to be a super high quality drink.

Source?

I have already stated who I think is qualified. Whoever says this is BS is also saying that school is useless and that there is no need to go to school as it doesn't make you any more qualified.

Yes you have stated that because Radomil went to an unknown school and studied distilling he is qualified to call his product absinth (that's what I understand you to say). What you aren't understanding is that based on the companies that actually made absinthe he was wrong or the recipe has changed enough to no longer be absinthe.

How can I remove the connection? What connection? Show me some concrete things that you mean. We do have a connection. The drink we make is closely based on what Absinth originally was.

Ok, lets see if I can make this easier.

•Absinthe drank in the 18th and early 19th century by famous french artists (as well as the general public) and poets was an anise based drink (based on company documents, and actual bottles).
•Hills connects its drink directly to that product. From the Hill's site "the Green Fairy", "In this section, Hills peels back the layers around this culture to present some of the legends about absinth, as well as its connection to many of the biggest icons of recent Western history, like Vincent Van Gogh and Edouard Manet. You'll also find here your fellow absinth-imbibers'"
•Hills is not anise-based. Manet did not drink bohemian-style absinth.
Something seems to not fit, why?


Slightly off topic,

So now English like the French and it's OK? I'm sure if you go to England you will find out that this not true for most people. The rivalry still exsists today as strong as it ever was.

I doubt it, but that is getting off the point.
The point is there is a lot more than just flavor which makes people drink or not drink a product.

Also I don't know but but it sure sounds like from what I read by your members that every Czech company is a fraud.

Not even close (Look around for people prizing Czech beer, being happy over at least two promising czech absinthe, etc.)

I have yet to find some real hard core French/ German Absinth bashing.

Then you haven't really read the forums. It's there. It just isn't nearly as legendary as claims by some czech companies. Of note is the LaFee XS line that took some lumps even though it's high quality absinthe. When it comes to questionable claims and obvious marketing spin, few are left off the hook.
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#104 Gertz

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:51 PM

I am not trying to say that people in this forum are self taught idiots but just swallow your pride a little and realize that my uncle Radomil has alot more qualification than most people on this forum.


Why has he qualification? Because he went to a school? Schools don't qualify anybody to anything. I've studied at an art school, yet I know of several completely self-taught kids that are way better artists than I may ever be.

There is one way, and one way only, to prove who is a good distiller: the taste of the final product. I have had absinthes made by self-taught, small-scale distillers that was vastly better than what professionals that had been in the trade for years have made.

As far as Hill's is concerned, there are two things to consider:

1) Is it a good product? Personally, I don't like it, but that is a matter of taste. It has nothing to do with not liking anything czech - I don't care about nationality, only about taste. Cami Toulouse-Lautrec is an OK absinthe, made in the Czech Republic. Pere Kermann is a disgusting absinthe, made in France.

2) Is it absinthe? You keep saying that it is a different product than "french-style absinthe". I would say that the anise-based drink you call "french-style absinthe" simply is what absinthe should be defined as. Period. You admit that Hill's is a different kind of drink - but why do you call it absinthe then??? Every single bit of historical evidence about the drink called absinthe before the ban is about an anise-based, wormwood-flavoured drink. I find it dishonest to use a name that belongs to a different kind of drink. An example of honest marketing would be the polish Piolunowka, which is some kind of wormwood bitter. I have tasted one that wasn't half bad. It had nothing to do with absinthe, but nobody ever claimed that it had.
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#105 Jaded Prole

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:53 PM

Taste buds are educated by experience. Wine aficionados are not generally formally educated about wine from books but from careful tasting and experience. Also, information about absinthe and for that matter distilling is available to all and does not require a Phd.

I'm also wondering, Wikipedia aside, where you have done your research on absinthe?

For the sake of illustrative inquiry, say that I am British, a subject of the crown as it were. As has been previously stated, we Brits aren't wild about anise and I want to make something that will be popular among my countrymen (and countrywomen). I decide to distill grand wormood along with Juniper berries making a rather interesting (and probably decent) hybrid gin -- after all, vermouth has been made with wormwood and martinis are quite the rage and I choose to call it "British style absinthe" based on the historical fact that even in England, wormwood has a history of medicinal use going back many centuries. The question then -- is it absinthe because I choose to call it that (as a Phd in distillation . . .)? Is it absinthe because it contains wormwood? If it is not, and I would say that is the case, what makes Hills absinthe?

And Alan, sorry for the affectation and don't get any ideas!

#106 peridot

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:53 PM

I have already stated who I think is qualified. Whoever says this is BS is also saying that school is useless and that there is no need to go to school as it doesn't make you any more qualified.

I actually do believe that school is useless in some situations, but not in all. I'd rather a doctor or lawyer be schooled. But I believe that distilling is an art and school can only teach so much. I don't trust a musician, painter, distiller, chef, or any other artist soley based on their education. In my opinion, in fields of art your credentials only mean something if your product is good. The product speaks for itself.

How can I remove the connection? What connection? Show me some concrete things that you mean. We do have a connection. The drink we make is closely based on what Absinth originally was.

It's not remotely similar to what absinthe is. As far as "absinth" goes, when was it originally made? I still assert that the name is misleading.

Again where is the proof. Everyone wants proof from me where is yours. I am willing to wait as you are waiting for mine. Also I don't know but but it sure sounds like from what I read by your members that every Czech company is a fraud. I have yet to find some real hard core French/ German Absinth bashing. I hope I don't find it anyway, it's for sad people.

You want proof that there are Czech companies that are using horrible marketing strategies usurp, mangle, and rebrand the history of absinthe? Okay.

Here's one that's been a particular thorn in our collective side. They sell other products besides their own but they are producers of a few brands and have inundated the internet and magazines with ads that promote their fraudulent products.

Also try www.xenta.com .

Oliva, a Czech absinthe producer, is trying to make a good, traditional product. From what I hear they've not had a lot of success yet but they're trying and their website not only has accurate information but one of the people behind it went to Fee Verte to get criticism so that they could make it better and more accurate.

If you've yet to find some real hardcore French/ German absinthe/ absinth bashing, just look through the review threads here and at Fee Verte. Like I said before we tend to call Bohemian-style absinth "Czechsinth" because it's primarily a Czech phenomenon and makes up the majority of Czech products that call themselves absinth or absinthe. But it's just a term. We haven't been using it in this discussion but if you look through old posts you'll find it used to describe products from other countries like the German-made Elixier. Anisefree products (this means anise low enough that the products don't louche) have just been generally called Czechsinth here and elsewhere as an easy term.

As Ari pointed out, we tore into the La Fee XS line with great ferocity even though one is French and the other is Swiss and both are apparently fine products, based on what we viewed as dishonest and insulting marketing. Do a search for that thread.

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#107 Jaded Prole

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:00 PM

I actually do believe that school is useless in some situations, but not in all. I'd rather a doctor or lawyer be schooled. But I believe that distilling is an art and school can only teach so much. I don't trust a musician, painter, distiller, chef, or any other artist soley based on their education. In my opinion, in fields of art your credentials only mean something if your product is good. The product speaks for itself.



Hear, Hear! :cheers:

#108 Hill

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:13 PM

Ultimately, making something that is utterly different in flavour and appearance from an established type of liquor and giving it the same name strikes me, personally, as dishonest. Things do change over time. New versions of different types of liquors evolve from previous versions. But the problem is that it doesn't look like Bohemian-style absinth ever did that. It looks like it just appeared out of nowhere. The Bohemian absinth tradition looks like it was manufactures out of whole cloth, not like it was something that grew over time.



This comment makes absolutley no sense to me. Are you saying that Hill's Absinth just appeared from a different dimension or something? First you say it is dishonest and then you say things do change over time. Why would you say that Bohemian style Absinth never evolved from something. If you are saying this then you are really giving us a huge compliment because you are basically we invented a drink out of thin air with no other influences.

I don't know that going to any school in europe would have taught how to distill absinthe or if they would have taught it well. I personally wouldn't look at the community consensus of enthusiasts and connoisseurs as being the result of know-nothing speculation and if you're going to dismiss us that way you have absolutely no reason to be here.



Again you have missed my point and made up things that I have not said. Read carefully now. I think that an Absinthe producer like many here are very knowledgable and they do have lots of qualifications however the issue of what procedures have to be followed by Absinth makers in order for their drink to be classified as such should be made by persons who have a deep understanding of the chemical processes of distillation and what the end result is. This is what they teach in school. Do not knock the European school system as it has been around longer than your country.

You haven't demonstrated very much knowledge about any absinthe tradition at all but don't expect everyone else to be as limited as you. There is a wealth of knowledge within this community, at this site and at Oxygenee's many sites, which we all have access to.



Again more insults, I thought we were done with that. I am making a case here for my families business which I am closely related to. I am not a distiller of any kind. Oxygeene is a person who makes up lies about us in order to further his own sales. He goes by what the UK rep of Hill's Absinth said along tiime ago and won't let it go even though we have said these things not to be true or unproven. If you look at our website www.hillsabsinth.com we do not say anything nasty about him or his business.

Sure the Czech movement sparked new interest in absinthe but that's where anything we owe it ends



Wow you just brushed that off. As you state the Czech movement sparked new interest in Absinth. To then give us such awful critisism is like jumping on the bandwagon and then killing the driver.

It doesn't help our efforts to get the FDA to change its stance in the USA, but the bigger issue for those of us who love its history and legacy is that it falsifies the history of absinthe and strips it of dignity entirely. Make no mistake; that is much more important to most of us than the FDA; it ruins absinthe's reputation and image worldwide.



Sorry mate but the image of Absinth was already ruined when it was banned. Blame them. This very image is what allows you to buy it on-line today. This image is what sparked new interest in the drink. The very fact that it was banned around the world. Even if Absinthe was proven to make you go crazy or as some kind of drug, it wouldn't bother me one bit to drink it. What image are you looking for? That it is a nice herbal drink. Boy if you were trying to market it there would be no Absinthe anywhere, except maybe in Spain.


Understand that our primary assertions are that Hill's Absinth is not absinthe at all and that there is no Czech Absinth tradition from before the 1990s. Any statements that Hill's is an inferior product are based on personal taste, the fact that it isn't similar to traditional absinthe, and the fact that, without any ultimate basis from which to judge its quality the only thing we have to compare it to is other products that share its name. By our absinthe standards Hill's is inferior.



Well this is what I will try to prove by bringing some evidence to this forum. You say that you do not have any basis to judge our products quality, so don't just go to the next best thing, other Absinthe's to judge by, just don't judge it. I'm sorry if less anise is what makes you say it is inferior. What you have said is a factless attempt at trying to discredit Hill's.



Absinthe was not produced based on the idea of "let's just distill alcohol from anything.



Yes the wine shortage is what made Absinthe to be consumed in larger quantities.





By the way, you did ask earlier what makes me qualified to ask you questions. Well, as a relatively junior and inexperienced member here, I'm a broke guy in Alabama who has managed, despite his extremely meagre income and having only attended one absinthe tasting, to have tasted more than 40 absinthes in about a year and a half. Probably means nothing to you but I put forth a lot of money and effort to educate myself and have read up on a ton of history.



No I did not ask you what makes you qualified to ask me questions. I asked what qualifies you to say that our Absinth is not an Absinth. My great uncle Radomil is qualified and has created this Absinth. He was selected by TIME magazine (August 20/27, 2001 issue) as a master craftsman from Europe beacause of his distillation abilities. This makes HIM qulaified to call what he makes Absinth.



In other words, it really does matter to me a lot. But like I said, I'm junior and my knowledge and experience are dwarfed by many here who are also asking you questions. I'll be happy to have anything I say corrected by you or the more knowledgeable members here. But just as I already know that any other members here would provide me with a reference, info about where to find a reference, or some other proof of what they say, I am expecting you to eventually do the same.

#109 peridot

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:13 PM

Not to mention that just because you go to school doesn't mean you're any good at what you were learning when you graduate. Some people without the talent can pass the test. And some horrid products are beloved all over the world (Budweiser, McDonalds, bubblegum pop music) because a lot of people don't have any taste.

I love looking at reviews at www.ratebeer.com because the most popular beers in this country are among the worst-rated products out of more than 20,000 worldwide. And I can promise you that very few, if any, of the people who say so have gone to school to learn how to brew. The people who get online and do research and go to the trouble of posting reviews are not educated brewers or the tasteless masses. They are the connoisseurs and enthusiasts who really love beer. Just like we really love absinthe.

You can decide for yourself how important any of that is. If we enthusiasts are fringe enough for you not to bother with, then fine. But we're here and we have opinions, and we have every right to voice them. I experience cognitive dissonance from the fact that you think our opinions are meaningless but you're spending time here trying to change them.

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#110 Hill

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:21 PM

[quote name='baubel' date='May 19 2007, 11:19 PM' post='88285']
Tom-
[quote] It's clear you're very passionate about your Absinthe, obviously you wouldn't go to the trouble if you didn't believe in your product. I'm new to Absinthe I've tried very few, but I've enjoyed them all on different levels. I'd like to try your Absinthe and give it a fair, respectable, comparasion to the others that I've tried. Does your company have a website which I may visit?[/quote]
Yes it is www.hillsabsinth.com sorry it took so long to reply. Thanks man.



[quote]Unfortunately, I am more than a bit weary at the moment and in real need of a good night's rest after a weekend vylet with my family. So, for the nonce, I welcome you heartily to our virtual family and look forward to joining the conversation with you when time allows me a clearer head. (Oh, and Dr. Noire, I'm not sure if I should kiss you or kick you for calling me a "boy" - certainly not as an issue of gender, but only of age and respect. ;) )[/quote]

Yes I will be back in Czech in the summer and we can get together and do a virtual tour as someone suggested.

#111 OMG_Bill

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:41 PM

Welcome Tom! :cheers:
Some folks may cringe each time I use the term "Booze" regarding these high quality drinks.
I mean no offense. There are bottles of extraordinary booze out there. I've tasted a few. Relax.

#112 Ari (Eric Litton)

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:50 PM

Again more insults, I thought we were done with that. I am making a case here for my families business which I am closely related to. I am not a distiller of any kind. Oxygeene is a person who makes up lies about us in order to further his own sales.

What lies?
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#113 speedle

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:53 PM

I feel that some cross-pollination is in order. Accordingly:

FV discussion of Czech absinthe, currently.

And this:

Just to broaden the discussion for Mr. Hill as well. It's not just about him, after all.
- cogito ergo louche

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#114 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:53 PM

He was selected by TIME magazine (August 20/27, 2001 issue) as a master craftsman from Europe beacause of his distillation abilities. This makes HIM qulaified to call what he makes Absinth.

Because a magazine said so?? I'm afraid not. There are plenty master distillers who know NOTHING about how to make absinthe.

Tom, you obviously don't have the capacity to make a case and your reasoning is terribly unsound. Like I said, read that logic link above. I'm not going to waste the time and energy to educate you just so we can communicate. You've been given a mountain of facts and evidence and given us nothing but emotional rhetoric. People have restrained themselves from what on any other forum would have been a firestorm of abuse and vulgarity to give you a fair shake, but you've responded with convoluted logic and irrelevant tangents.

The problem is, you are wrong. Hill's is not absinthe and never was. There is no proof to produce. To intentionally continue to offer it as absinthe when it is not, makes it fake:

fake

verb, faked, fak·ing, noun, adjective
–verb (used with object)
1. prepare or make (something specious, deceptive, or fraudulent): to fake a report showing nonexistent profits.
2. to conceal the defects of or make appear more attractive, interesting, valuable, etc., usually in order to deceive: The story was faked a bit to make it more sensational.
3. to pretend; simulate: to fake illness.
4. to accomplish by trial and error or by improvising: I don't know the job, but I can fake it.
5. to trick or deceive (an opponent) by making a fake (often fol. by out): The running back faked out the defender with a deft move and scored.
6. Jazz.
a. to improvise: to fake an accompaniment.
b. to play (music) without reading from a score.
–verb (used without object)
7. to fake something; pretend.
8. to give a fake to an opponent.
–noun
9. anything made to appear otherwise than it actually is; counterfeit: This diamond necklace is a fake.

10. a person who fakes; faker: The doctor with the reputed cure for cancer proved to be a fake.
11. a spurious report or story.
12. Sports. a simulated play or move intended to deceive an opponent.


Now, to be fair, I don't necessarily believe that your family set out to defraud anyone. I've always believed that Radomil came up with the product assuming that distilling it with wormwood would be sufficient to call it absinth. Unfortunately he was mistaken. Also, no one could have ever known that it would become what it has or that Hill's would ever be known outside of Czechia. For that, we do not blame you or your family.

However, now that the true nature of absinthe is well-known and wide-spread, and more so every day, it's up to you to do the approriate thing and respond in good faith—not in attacking people who are only spreading the truth and helping to educate consumers.

Please refrain from responding with counter-questions which have nothing to do with the issue. Try to simply answer the questions with simple, straightforward answers.

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#115 Jaded Prole

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:53 PM

So than, is my distillation of Wormwood and Juniper "British style absinthe" or not . . .?

#116 Hill

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:04 PM

Yeah I can see why Dr. Absinthe doesn't post here. As if it isn't enought that I'm out numbered in hear you have to pat each other on the back? That feels good eh? So my uncle is a fraud, school is for fools, and everything has to taste like French or Swiss Absinthe otherwise it's fake? Come on. What about ABSYNTH used in the 1700's (Absinthe History in a Bottle) Absinth was used indrinks called Absinth speklt different ways even in acient Greece and it was nothing like the French absinthe yet it was still called the same name. French or Swiss do not have a patent on Absinth no matter what you say. You say the if Rowley went to Spain he would make Spanish Absinthe popular but then people admit that most Brits don't like anise. It's a joke. You people are so pride-full that you can't even admit that it is the taste of the less anise Hill's Absinth that made the drink popular again. Peridot you like to put words into my mouth and it is you who thinks my opnions are meaningless. You even think that going to school is meaningless. No wonder,............I won't even say it.

I am not responding to emails right now because I can't be on this damn computer all day.

#117 peridot

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:08 PM

This comment makes absolutley no sense to me. Why would you say that Bohemian style Absinth never evolved from something. If you are saying this then you are really giving us a huge compliment because you are basically we invented a drink out of thin air with no other influences.

I'm saying that it appears to be something entirely unrelated to absinthe. And there doesn't seem to have been any Czech tradition that led up to it. So, basically, yeah, I think Bohemian-style absinth was just a totally new type of liquor that was made maybe with, maybe without other influences. If you think the product is good then it's something to be proud of. I would have gone back to the drawing board myself.

I think that an Absinthe producer like many here are very knowledgable and they do have lots of qualifications however the issue of what procedures have to be followed by Absinth makers in order for their drink to be classified as such should be made by persons who have a deep understanding of the chemical processes of distillation and what the end result is. This is what they teach in school. Do not knock the European school system as it has been around longer than your country.

I'm saying that I haven't been presented with any evidence that that school taught absinthe making, and that even if it did, it didn't necessarily do it well (after all, it was a product of entirely different nationality whose era of popularity ended at least two decades before your great uncle attended). And a person who graduated from there didn't necessarily take to any lessons on that relatively obscure liquor taught there. And that even if he did, I don't know how honest a man he is. You're not grasping that what I'm saying is that the fact that he went to that school is not enough to prove his qualifications. There's too many other variables.

Again more insults, I thought we were done with that.

Don't even try that with me. I can see through it and so can everyone else. I didn't insult you. I gave my honest opinion based on how your arguments and how you've presented yourself. That's all. Just because it's a negative opinion doesn't mean that it's meant to insult. Just to describe to you why I'm not taking your arguments very seriously.

I am making a case here for my families business which I am closely related to. I am not a distiller of any kind. Oxygeene is a person who makes up lies about us in order to further his own sales. He goes by what the UK rep of Hill's Absinth said along tiime ago and won't let it go even though we have said these things not to be true or unproven. If you look at our website www.hillsabsinth.com we do not say anything nasty about him or his business.

Okay. Make a list of the lies that have been made up about your family's product specifically. And do NOT cite things that are said about Bohemian-style absinth in general because there are other producers of it. Also, explain what he and others are saying that were based on the UK sales rep that have not been corrected, again leaving out anything about Bohemian-style absinth in general. You keep talking about lies but you're not showing us where they are or telling us what they are.

Wow you just brushed that off. As you state the Czech movement sparked new interest in Absinth. To then give us such awful critisism is like jumping on the bandwagon and then killing the driver.

I'm saying that my criticism of the products isn't affected by sentimental thoughts. You can keep calling it "jumping on the bandwagon" but we got our own a while back. As you can see from this site's reccommended vendors the products we like have an entirely different style of marketing than Hill's or any other Bohemian-style absinth producers or distributors.

Sorry mate but the image of Absinth was already ruined when it was banned. Blame them. This very image is what allows you to buy it on-line today. This image is what sparked new interest in the drink. The very fact that it was banned around the world. Even if Absinthe was proven to make you go crazy or as some kind of drug, it wouldn't bother me one bit to drink it. What image are you looking for? That it is a nice herbal drink. Boy if you were trying to market it there would be no Absinthe anywhere, except maybe in Spain.

You're simplifying the whole concept. Being banned and blamed for causing madness and the decay of society is one thing. Being marketed as a narcotic is not the same. Especially when, based on modern science, we know much better now. The insane crap that was spread around to get it banned wouldn't have the same credibility today because modern studies disprove it and that information can get around in our modern world a lot easier. But now it's not the industry enemies pushing that crap; it's the industry itself! It's an intentional muddying of the waters. Even though the truth is out there the pushers of Bohemian-style absinth try to make their misinformation so ubiquitous that other people don't find the truth.

Well this is what I will try to prove by bringing some evidence to this forum. You say that you do not have any basis to judge our products quality, so don't just go to the next best thing, other Absinthe's to judge by, just don't judge it. I'm sorry if less anise is what makes you say it is inferior. What you have said is a factless attempt at trying to discredit Hill's.

No, nothing I've said could discredit it. It hasn't given any reason to be considered credible to begin with. It says "absinth" which is another spelling of "absinthe," so we'll certainly judge it by what it says it is. It doesn't say "Bohemian-style absinth" on the bottle. It says "absinth" just like the label on a bottle of Eichelberger does.

Yes the wine shortage is what made Absinthe to be consumed in larger quantities.

Not really the same thing at all, is it?

No I did not ask you what makes you qualified to ask me questions. I asked what qualifies you to say that our Absinth is not an Absinth. My great uncle Radomil is qualified and has created this Absinth. He was selected by TIME magazine (August 20/27, 2001 issue) as a master craftsman from Europe beacause of his distillation abilities. This makes HIM qulaified to call what he makes Absinth.

I don't accept your reasoning for why he's qualified. You have to provide me with more. What you've provided is "he went to school, he was in TIME magazine." None of this has anything to do with absinthe specifically. Nothing. You're suggesting that a brilliant absinthe curriculum was part of his education. Why should I believe that it was even taught at all?

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#118 Jaded Prole

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:08 PM

You're only responding the with fallacies and convoluted logic based on defensive emotions. You've yet to address the real issue. Is my Wormwood and juniper distillation absinthe? Could I call carbonated chardonnay champagne? What, aside from the vaunted opinion of your relative, qualifies Hills as absinthe when it bears no resemblance to anything else by that name?

#119 Gwydion Stone

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:10 PM

I'm done. This is stupid.

Edit: Wow, three posts at once. My above comment was in response to Hill's last post.

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#120 Grey Boy

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:11 PM

AGREED™!!!
I'm gonna meet pierreverte!


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