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Hill's Czech style Absinth

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Look, Hiram I will be here when you call tomorrow.

 

You state that there are plenty of master distillers who know nothing about making Absinthe right? Ok If I said that you would quote me and say who are these master distillers, show me proof or something like that. You would want proof. So can I not request the same thing? This is my point you seem to be one sided. I have to ahve all the proof yet everything you say has to be taken as the truth?

 

If all you care about is for me to show you with proof why you should consider Hill's as an Absinth you will have to wait, I mentioned that in the very beginning almost. I have repeated this over and over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you state that there are plenty of master distillers who know nothing about how to make Absinthe. You critisize me for not showing facts yet I'm again supposed to differ to your higher knowledge and believe that there really are these master distillers who now nothing?
This is a perfect example of your poor reasoning. I said they know nothing about distilling absinthe.
Thank-you for the education on how to argue. Isn't school for fools,
No one here said that but you.
I have stated that I will give you more evidence of the history of my families Absinth but why do you want it if you've already made your decision? Patience. You don't think I've taken abuse in this forum? Man you need to read some of these posts. I think your just mad that I don't want to go to your littlre Absinthe get together. Or maybe you want me out of here because I'm making a good case.
I assure you, that's not the reason. You haven't made a single valid point. And my invitation was sincere, but you've kind of blown it now.
However, now that the true nature of absinthe is well-known and wide-spread, and more so every day, it's up to you to do the appropriate thing and respond in good faith—not in attacking people who are only spreading the truth and helping to educate consumers.
So in other words you want me to not argue and agree with everything you say? Otherwise I'm attacking people?
No, that's not what I said. Read it again.
Please refrain from responding with counter-questions which have nothing to do with the issue. Try to simply answer the questions with simple, straightforward answers.
All my answeres are no good to you? Why are you pretending that you want to debate with me.
I never said I want to debate with you. I said I want you to show me why we should consider Hill's an absinth.
To everyone else read what I have said. I will give you more details and the proof you seek about our distillation process when I have them. In the meantime my arguments are valid that's why your all so pissed off!
No they're not. We're pissed off because you're not willing or capable of following a rational line of reasoning and that we've wasted so much time talking to the wrong person.

 

Besides, how do I know you're who you say you are? You used a hotmail account to sign up here. When I call tomorrow, will you be there?

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If all you care about is for me to show you with proof why you should consider Hill's as an Absinth you will have to wait, I mentioned that in the very beginning almost. I have repeated this over and over.

 

I keep wondering to myself why you didn't come prepared BEFORE you started this topic?

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Tom, the reason I know there are many distillers out there who know nothing about absinthe is that the knowledge of how to make proper absinthe has been pretty obscure for a long time, and I very seriously doubt that it's being taught in any distilling programs. It's incredibly unlikely that the fellows who make bourbon in Kentucky give a rat's ass about absinthe.

 

You seem to have a notion that all Master Distillers know how to make every liquor invented, where they in fact usually have a detailed knowledge of the science and art of distilling in general, and then specialize in a particular spirit or group of spirits.

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Hiram, he's not going to listen to any of that. He's going to want sources like he doesn't cite.

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If all you care about is for me to show you with proof why you should consider Hill's as an Absinth you will have to wait, I mentioned that in the very beginning almost. I have repeated this over and over.

 

I keep wondering to myself why you didn't come prepared BEFORE you started this topic?

 

 

Because I wanted to introduce myself and start the topic now, I"m impatient I guess. I also believe that what I have to say in this post is not emtional rhetoric but my opinion on the Czech Absinth situation today.

Below is my reason for coming in here now. Keep in mind that even after this post people were still asking be details about distilling absinth and what should be the ingredients in true Absinth. Why do they ask this when I clearly state that I am not a distiller and that I will get more detailed information? My main point in the last paragraph is that all this real/fake Absinth arguing aside, I believe because of the taste of our less anise Absinth, it has broken through the barrier between anise loving nations and nations that don't like it as much. Most of us come from those nations. Without Hill's Absinth there might of never have been an Absinth revival. I back this statement up with logic and from what I see when I do tastings here in Canada. Since I believe this to be true I think we deserve way more recpect just based on this fact. I have to admit although that this is the most intelligent group of Absinth people that I have posted on the internet with when it comes to Absinth knowledge but below is what I want to talk about for now.

 

 

 

 

The issue that bothers me is that people who really are not qualified to call our Absinth fake, are. Let me explain why I think this. Someone who makes Absinthe is obviously a person who can have an accurate opinion on whether or not another competitors drink is a quality product based on his distilling process, not just on taste. Only a distiller who knows how to make all types of drinks and who is not self taught but taught by knowledge that has been passed down since the 1500's or earlier is qualified to make the decision of how a certain drink shall be classified. This is why most manufacturers of alcohol do not bash competitors on the internet. They know it would make themselves look desperate and they don't really know how their competitors do things, since they are mostly kept a secret.

 

Another issue I have is with people saying that Czechs are hurting the Absinthe industry. I am not defending their marketing ways but realize something please. The only reason that you are able to sample 100's of different types of Absinthe's now on the market is because of what you call "clever or false marketing by Czech Absinth makers". People are attracted to what is or was illegal. The whole French ban on Absinthe is what attracts new people to try Absinthe. This then in turn lead to original manufacturers of historical Absinthe to start making it again and other new companies to try and copy the old recipes. On the flip side of that it is hurting the case of making Absinthe legal in the USA but the case of why it should be illegal in the USA was made along time ago when Czechs were not known for Absinth making except by people in Czech. So the way I look at it is yes the Czech comapnies are hurting the US Absinthe drinking peoples chances of making it legal in their country but without this unfounded hype, which I think goes both ways, their would not be any Absinthe around and their would be no wormwood society and there would be no possibility of buying Absinthe on-line from whoever. Because of this I think that the positive impact of Czech Absinth greatly outweights the negative things caused by a few bandwagon jumping, quick money making idiots.

 

I want Hill's Absinth and one other comapany that we work closely with, The Green Tree Distillery to be seperated from the rest of Czech Absinth makers. I want us to go down in history as a quality distilled Absinth and a new evolution in Absinth drinks. I realize that this might require some proof and I am hoping that very shortly I will have it for you. In the mean time, if like some say I am on trial, don't make accustions based on your opinion or personal taste, make them with facts as if this were a trial. To accuse someone of a crime with no evidence is in itself a serious issue and can make you look bad in the end. The fact is that no one here knows our recipe or our distillation process and therefore should not be accusing us of being fake. I am offering to be a liason between you guys and Hill's directly, so some questions answeres will have to wait until I have an explanation from Hill's directly. As I say I am not a proffesional distiller.

 

When I educate people on Absinthe I tell them the truth. I tell them that what we have is a different type of Absinth. That the very old Swiss Absinthe tastes quite a bit different. I offer them both to taste and when they ask about all the hype around Absinthe I say that it doesn't make you hallucinate although drinking enough 70% alc. drinks will make you see in three's. I tell them that every alcohol produces a differnt buzz. Beer gives you a differnt drunk then wine for example. Hill's Absinth makes most people I drink it with feel very talkitive and alert. I also find it to give me strange dreams. This is however just me and I don't claim it to be a fact.

 

Absinthe was a drink that was not produced for a very long time before it was banned in many countries. It was never a super high quality drink. It was made to replace the grape shortage and therefore wine shortage in France. People were looking at ways to distill alcohol from anything at that time.

 

Another qustion I have is that if Absinthe was never banned England why did it never take off there before Czech Absinth? Why did they feel they do not have to bann it? You mean to tell me that of all the people that travelled to Spain from England had never discovered Absinthe or tasted it in a bar there? You mean to say that even though France still made a wormwood free Absinthe that know one in England or the US who is well travelled thought it might be a good business venture to start making reproduction pre-ban Absinthe? I have found in my tastings 3 types of people. A person who has been brainwashed by all the historical French propiganda about Absinthe and the Czech propaganda and they want to try it to get high or something stupid like that. Then you have the group of people who have no preconceptions about Absinth because they have never heard of it before and they just want to try it. The third group of people are more educated about Absinthe and even though they do not absolutly love the taste of Swiss or French style Absinthe they really want to like it because they like what it stands for and the era that it was popular. These are the people that keep drinking Absinthe until they develope a taste for it and start to enjoy it more. This is why tastes are different. When people first drink coffee as a kid or beer for that matter, they don't like it. It takes a while before they aquire the taste. Therefore to have a few tastes of a product and declare it to be awful really means nothing. Every product should however be treated with recpect I think. The only time critisizing is justified in my opinion is when the manufacturer uses harmful chemicals or preservitives in their products when really there is no need to.

 

Thanks

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None of this will change the taste. I respect him for defending his family's honor, but then again I respect my cousin’s opinion that Air Supply is the only true rock band. Bless his soul; he was dropped on his head by a hippie.

Edited by Oscar

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Hill.

 

 

Seriously.

 

 

Hill.

 

 

You copied something you said earlier and pasted it. Stuff we already responded to.

 

Posting it again shows that you just simply ignored our responses and don't care whatsoever what we have to say because it just won't make a difference.

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Hill.

 

 

Seriously.

 

 

Hill.

 

 

You copied something you said earlier and pasted it. Stuff we already responded to.

 

Posting it again shows that you just simply ignored our responses and don't care whatsoever what we have to say because it just won't make a difference.

 

Peridot please do not post on this thread anymore. You are posting so much and you are very aggresive as Alan even has said to me. I will just have to ignore your posts. You only take small parts of my post and respond but do not respond to the entire point I am trying to make. Thank-you.

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So you're saying Alan is a Hill's shill?

I knew it! *sarcasm alert*

 

None of this will change the taste. I respect him for defending his family's honor, but then again I respect my cousin’s opinion that Air Supply is the only true rock band. Bless his soul; he was dropped on his head by a hippie.

Hippies ruin everything.

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I do not have the proof everyone seeks with me right now but I will get it and post it first here and explain the truth about all this. I am an auto technician by trade but because of an injury I have begun promoting Absinth here in Canada. I know lots of people like to act like they know something who don't really know the truth and end up spreading false truths, which causes alot of harm and headaches for people that do know the truth.

 

Promoting a product you have to investigate "after the fact" suggests your knowledge is limited. I don't mean to sound overly critical, just that you are trying to defend your position but haven't yet acquainted yourself with the details necessary to make a convincing defense. Likewise, you will probably be better positioned to promote and market your family's product after said acquaintance. Surely, it is of little value to respond to the many posts without this info. Take your time. There will no doubt be many posts in the meantime concerning the previous discussion, but carrying the discussion forward will be more meaningful when you have the additional information needed.

 

 

When I educate people on Absinthe I tell them the truth. I tell them that what we have is a different type of Absinth. That the very old Swiss Absinthe tastes quite a bit different.

 

I want Hill's Absinth and one other comapany that we work closely with, The Green Tree Distillery to be seperated from the rest of Czech Absinth makers. I want us to go down in history as a quality distilled Absinth and a new evolution in Absinth drinks.

 

Case in point. Without sufficient information claims that a particular product has a particular "quality" and represents a "new evolution in Absinth" is only meaningful in context. Using the term "truth" is also sensitive since it implies the ongoing questions are accusations of untruthfulness. This usually results in "hackles being raised" and the discussion degrading into name-calling and tit-for-tat exchanges. A key complaint in the foregoing conversation is that the marketing of some Czech absinth products misrepresents the relationship between these "new" Czech products and the historic products (and those "new" products that adhere closely to the recipes and classical distillation methods used by the earliest and most successful commercial producers of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries). If the marketing was clearly presented so the consumer understood the difference between the two, I doubt many here would object. They might not buy these "evolved" absinth products, but would not object to their presence in the marketplace either.

 

A cooling off period seems in order. Let's see what details Tom is able to provide.

 

As for the debate over what is and isn't legitimately labeled absinthe, I would like to suggest perusing the recent review by Lachenmeier* in the scientific journal "Critical Reviews in Food Science and Nutrition." Lachenmeier makes a very strong case for what legitimately (historically) constitutes absinthe and argues a specific marketing definition is in order.

 

Lachenmeier, D. W., S. G. Walch, S. A. Padosch, and L. U. Kroner. 2006. Absinthe--a review. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr 46:365-77.

 

See also this newer paper:

 

Lachenmeier, D. W. 2007. Assessing the authenticity of absinthe using sensory evaluation and HPTLC analysis of the bitter principle absinthin. Food Research International 40:167–175.

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Peridot please do not post on this thread anymore. You are posting so much and you are very aggresive as Alan even has said to me. I will just have to ignore your posts. You only take small parts of my post and respond but do not respond to the entire point I am trying to make. Thank-you.

:wave2:

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Hill's late father used to produce the brew in great quantities. He named it Hill's Absinth.

 

Tis bullshit until there is proof.

Not family tales or legends, real fucking proof.

A sales ledger, distilling instructions with a recipe,

bar tabs or menus with this product listed.

 

As I said, the wonderful Czech Pilsners (Urquell, Budvar, Rebel, etc...) made it through the commies just fine, why did absinth disappear?

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First of all, I'm sorry if some of this is a repeat, but I haven't read through every single post in its entity.

 

 

Tom, so you joined in here...

 

It is amazing to see how it appears to be the same things that are said over and over. I compared Hill's to mouthwash, because that is the taste it had to me.

I can also say that I at occassion may "taste" the smell of gunpowder in Lebanese wines. So what?

 

I don't owe you an apology for that.

 

What's more funny is that you take for granted that you and your relatives seem to be the only ones that know anything about producing liqueurs and other spirits. We've had a long going conversation before Tom, and the same things were said then. You need to understand that even though the people at the Hill's distillery may be excellent distillers, doesn't make them excellent absinthe producers.

 

The distillers at the Jack Daniel's distillery probably wouldn't make great absinthes either.

 

During our ongoing conversation in the past you said you'd provide "evidence" of early Czech absinthe history. Then all of a sudden you couldn't because the evidence you refered to couldn't be found and then blamed that on communism. Seems to me there was no evidence in the first place.

 

Since you constantly took for granted that no-one but the Hill's family knew how to distill spirits you, and whomever involved in your family, were invited to join in a civilized private forum where several professional distillers and distributors and some of the worlds foremost historians on the subject would take part. You declined that and was not to be heard from again.

 

On a side note to that I may take this chance to ask you something I asked back then but never got an answer from other than your repeated reference to how TIME Magazine named your relative a master distiller etc. As if TIME Magazine is qualitifed to distill anything on their own, and then by your own standards wouldn't be qualified to tell if Mr Hill knew copper from aluminium...

 

Please explain to me, and others, why a master distiller with extensive knowledge in distilling absinthe would want to triple distill his absinthe. This is what you said is done, was it not?

Then please let all the "amateurs" here know how much of the initial taste is left after that triple destillation.

 

You cannot expect anyone seriously involved in the absinthe industry and/or history to accept your ways to try and distort the history of the drink we know as absinthe. Especially when you decline the option of really getting a chance to discuss it with other professionals.

 

But then again, to you we are all just amatuers who know nothing about absinthe, whilst you apparently know it all. You refer to people opposing you and your "knowledge" as to being experts in a day. Many people here have a long extensive background in researching the history of absinthe. Do not forget that.

 

Now, Tom - have you seen "a different type of Ouzo" or "a different type of Cognac" or maybe "a different type of red wine"? I guess not. Why is that? Because an Ouzo is an Ouzo and a Cognac is a Cognac and I'll be damned if red wine isn't just that - red - and wine.

 

Can something only five years "old" be called a tradition? No.

The definition of tradition: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tradition

'"the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation"

"something that is handed down"

"a long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting"

"a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices"

 

In that aspect five years is but a blink of an eye.

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Okay folks, here's the thing:

 

I had a very long, lively, sincere and entertaining conversation with Tom this evening.

 

He is a passionate and energetic young man and I'm convinced of his sincerity in coming here. He is also aware that he came here somewhat unprepared and that it was a hasty move. However the move was inspired by family loyalty and indignation at Hill's being lumped in with every other Czech product and their marketing.

 

To be fair, as Alan pointed out early on, Hill's has been the least guilty of any of the Czech brands of hyping thujone and the rest. Most of that (all I would say, in my personal estimation) is due to their former distributors and promoters. As for whether Hill's qualifies as absinthe, my opinion is unchanged, but maybe a tad more flexible. Don't gasp, it's just a tad.

 

I'm suggesting we call off the dogs, at least for the time being. I certainly don't have the time to go into the details now, but suffice it to say that I believe huge progress has been made and I think Tom would agree.

 

And I'm going to have Mrs. Hiram set two extra places at the dinner table next weekend, for Tom and his missus.

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Hello Tom. Unlike Hartsmar I have read all the posts :harhar: and I do hope they do not discourage you from answering the most essential questions many out there have in mind and have asked more than a thousand times.

I cannot agree about reds controlling the spirit industry as a result of is no evidence of absinth(e) paraphenalia, etc. Why? In Poland, we have had "Absynt" (Absinthii vodka) (so says the label) distilled by Polmos Bielsko-Biała and although it is no longer available AFAIK, it was then in 1949 and later, so was and still is absinthe predecessor - Piołunówka, not counting anise-flavoured varieties so I am wondering why in Poland everything had survived and why in Czech Republic not?

Hill's might be seen as wormwood-mint-flavoured liquor, but what disquailifies its as genuine absinthe is not the fact it comes from Czech Republic, but its artificial taste, colouring, all in all very weird appearance.

Obviously, as you mention the louche is essential for absinthe, there is no louche in Hill's and try as I might I do not detect it. There is some anise profile in Stromu, but still no louche, either. So there is no absinthe we are talking about. I would compare the amount of anethole present in Stromu to that found in Metaxa *******, if I would never compare these spirits as equal partners on the shelf.

Apart from taste, you must be aware of possibility for colouing your product naturally which is very easy since Hill's is at 70% and even if you want to retain mintiness, just colour it with mint only, but at least make it non-artificial. Artificial colouring as it has been mentioned some posts earlier had to do with inferior brands only (they were also credited for further addition of star anise oil, otherwise they would not louche at that tiny amount of anethole).

Hill's was my first alcohol of what you name Bohemian style and I still own a mignonette from the 90's just for sentiment, still I would like to see some facts presented in favour of anything you claim.

And hope you can provide us with them :cheers:

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Tom, I think that I speak for many here in saying that when you do have proof, we would like to see it. Even if it takes months or years to collect it, please bring it here.

If the evidence is sound, I think that many of the people here would be willing to change their minds about the authenticity of Hills.

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Good to see solid signs of progress here: Hiram and Tom dining together (we want photos of this momentous event, please), the Czech Absinthe Blog apparently "taking a break" (Edit: now back in action today, having said they were taking a break yesterday), and indications that other Czech absinth may be dropping their thujone-hyping (Source: Shabba and thanks for the images).

 

Having worked for a Hill's distributor in the past (thanks for the intermittent reminders, DrAbsinthe), I am a little involved in all this, although hardly as a shill (thanks, Grey Boy!). I don't want to comment too much on the UK distributor, other than to say that brand owners always need to monitor what their local distributors do. That's easy for big companies (although I must admit my horror when working with Remy Martin to find the Philippine distributor was running a Sip or Strip promotion for us!), and more difficult for smaller companies. That said, I know that I changed a lot on the sites that I inherited at eAbsinthe (on La Fee and Hill's), but maybe those changes didn't get reflected on other people's sites. Tom, tell Hiram and Oxy what mistakes their sites contain, and, being honorable gentlemen, they will remove anything that is obviously incorrect.

 

Tom, you say you don't care what other Czech companies do (but you asked for examples, I think). Personally I think you should care, since it has an impact on how you, as part of that industry, are perceived. Hell, it has an influence on how people here see you. Like it or not, your image gets tainted by companies like:

 

Logan: genuine Swiss absinthe that I believe is made in the Czech Republic (please correct me if I am wrong)

 

Sites like this selling King of Spirits

 

and many others.

 

Unlike others here, I don't totally blame Tom for leaping in unprepared: I first saw him post on a blog a few days back and it seems that he feels personally attacked in all this criticism of Hill's. Hence he leaps in. What that shows me is his passion for something he believes in (even if some of us find it misguided).

 

Before dinner next week, Tom might also like to try getting an update from Hill's other markets. I see little evidence in the UK market of any great love for Bohemian-style absinth. Impossible to find Hill's in bars or shops; very difficult to find La Fee Bohemian. Indicating to me, at any rate, that in a mature absinthe market (9 years since Hill's was launched here), French/Swiss style is much preferred. Food for thought, Tom?

 

Tom, Hill's can't claim 100% credit for the absinthe renaissance. Fee Verte, the other absinthe forum was establishd in 1997, the year before Hill's came to the UK. You can see some of the 1998 archive here (again pre-dating Hill's UK launch). A Mr. Breaux was commenting on various European absinthes then. Yours and some Spanish absinthes.

 

Finally, the good news. If you want to ignore Peridot, the software here allows you to do so: click on his name, and then on profile options. Actually, as he reminds me, he is being quite restrained in his comments so far (compared with his comments elsewhere!).

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Wow, this thread has my head reeling trying to keep up. I'm trying to read everything but my eyes keep blurring over. Literally. I'm just not as young as I used to be. :wheelchair:

 

Tom, I look forward to a chance of getting to meet this summer and would welcome a family-sponsored tour of Hill's Liquere. I hope the offer will stand.

 

Now, could I ask a few simple questions for clarification of my own feeble understanding. Are you now working for Hill's Liquere? If so, in what capacity exactly? What is your job title? I'm also very curious about the relationship between Hill's Liquere and U zeleneho stromu. Could you flesh this out a little for me? Are the businesses intertwined, so to speak, with common ownership or simply mutual distribution or supply logistics, or, well, I don't know what. I'd just like a clearler idea of their relationship. One more simple question, if you have any idea, or could look into it, why did Hill's choose to call the product "Absinth" when the proper colloquial and legal Czech word for this liquor is "Absint"?

 

He went to the school of Liquor Mixing and Production in Prague.

Can you tell us more about this school? Where in Prague? What degree did he obtain?

More importantly, I think, when did your great uncle attend this school? Higher education in former Czechoslovakia has, shall we say, certain ramifications depending on one's attendance dates.

 

Also, I empathize with you jumping in here in a manner that may be a bit premature. I am coming under some pressure from local sources to turn my efforts towards salesmanship of a Czech product to a North American customer base. I don't even know where to begin to ask the right questions to weigh how feasible this might be. Except that it really isn't feasible because I couldn't sell hymnals to the choir if my life depended on it. I appreciate your fortitude appearing here. :cheers:

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Tom, I look forward to a chance of getting to meet this summer and would welcome a family-sponsored tour of Hill's Liquere. I hope the offer will stand.
Distillery visits to both La Clandestine and Hill's in the same year? I'll have to vet the photos you take at Couvet next month in case they show too much of our confidential process. :devil:

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And I'm going to have Mrs. Hiram set two extra places at the dinner table next weekend, for Tom and his missus.

Excellent!

Places at the dinner table? Next you'll be asking us to wash our hands. Getting pretty fancy, it looks to me.

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I compared Hill's to mouthwash, because that is the taste it had to me.

 

 

 

Now, Tom - have you seen "a different type of Ouzo" or "a different type of Cognac" or maybe "a different type of red wine"?

 

It tasted like mouthwash to me, as well, and it really did bear a striking visual similarity to Scope™.

 

And not to take exception to any of your above arguments, Hartsmar, but there are, in fact many types of red wine. :tongue:

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