Jump to content

 

Photo

Thirteen-week repeated dose toxicity study


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,253 posts

Posted 25 February 2005 - 12:03 PM

Thirteen-week repeated dose toxicity study of wormwood (Artemisia absinthium) extract in rats.

Muto T, Watanabe T, Okamura M, Moto M, Kashida Y, Mitsumori K.

Laboratory of Veterinary Pathology, Faculty of Agriculture, Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology, 3-5-8 Saiwai-cho, Fuchu-shi, Tokyo 183-8509, Japan.

Wormwood, Artemisia absinthium, is a very bitter plant, and its extract has been used as food additives such as seasonings for food and drinks. A 13-week repeated dose toxicity study of wormwood extract was performed in both sexes of Wistar Hannover (GALAS) rats. Rats were divided into 4 groups consisting of 10 males and 10 females each, and were given water containing 0, 0.125, 0.5, or 2% wormwood extract. All rats had survived at the end of the study, and no changes indicating obvious toxicities that are attributable to the treatment of wormwood extract were observed in the body weights, hematological and serum biochemical examinations, organ weights, and histopathological examinations. Based on the results of the present study, the NOAEL (no-observed-adverse-effect-level) of wormwood extract of Wistar Hannover rats was estimated to be 2% (equivalent to 1.27 g/kg/day in males and 2.06 g/kg/day in females) or more.

PMID: 14746350 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Maker of Marteau Absinthe
Master Distiller, Gnostalgic Spirits Distillery
www.absinthemarteau.com
Confessions of an Absinthiste


#2 Auguru

Auguru

    Naught the One...

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 659 posts

Posted 26 February 2005 - 09:35 PM

Good lord! 2% wormwood extract. "(equivalent to 1.27 g/kg/day in males and 2.06 g/kg/day in females)". Can you imagine. A comparable amount in a 150 lb person would be between 86 and 140 grams per day!

Let's see. That means between 3 and 5 ounces per day. One ounce in a shot. 3 to 5 shots of straight wormwood oil a day!

Now to figure out the typical amount of thujone per gram of wormwood oil...
"If I can't drink, I don't want to be in your revolution ..."
-- Emma Goldman

"Beneath the stars there are the bars that serve the bitter drink..."
-- Be Bop Deluxe ("Life in the Air Age" from the "Sunburst Finish" album)

#3 AndrewT

AndrewT

    Dances With Livers

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 685 posts

Posted 27 February 2005 - 06:29 AM

Time to whip out the ol' calculator.

Well assuming your absinthe is chock full of 35g/l of thujone, that's between 2.5 to 4 liters., or 3.3 to 5.3 standard sized bottles of absinthe. Assuming an average 68%, that gives 1.7 to 2.72 liters of pure ethanol. Assuming you're drinking over an entire 24 hour period, that gives you a blood alcohol level of 2.64% to 4.1%. 0.3% to 0.5% tends to be the range where fatalities start happening.

Another test of physical limitations is that if you dilute your absinthe 3:1, you're consuming between 10 and 16 liters of liquid. The standard capacity of one's stomach is around one liter.

Just imagine if Ted's right and there's hardly any thujone in there to begin with.
-Andrew Thompson

#4 Conju

Conju

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 428 posts

Posted 27 February 2005 - 04:49 PM

Cross posted from the Thujone study uses crappy absinthe thread:

I myself use the general bodyweight rule of thumb as it were inversely proportional to toxicity levels. i.e. Say a lab rat weighs anywhere from 1-2lbs, and LD50 is 45mg/kg.
Average adult human weight being est. 180lbs, one could derive the formula
180lbs/2lbs=90
LD50(.5)/90=.2%

Furthermore, if teds tests do hold true, meaning that average thujone is est. approx < .00002% or .02mg/kg we can say

45/.02=2250

.2%/2250=.00009% mortality rate for 1 glass of absinthe
mortality rate for 15 glasses drank by 180lb human= .0013%
mortality rate for 30 glasses " " " " "= .0026%
etc. etc.

Lets say that 30 drinks is enough to cause alcohol poisoning in an average 180lb person (probably an overestimate, but lets get kinky here). We can safely conclude that it is a safe bet that one human being cannot drink enough in one sitting to ingest an unmetabolizable amount of a-thujone, causing brain failure.


Also keep in mind that my numbers are just guesses, but are probably safe bets based on what has been heard.


That's the best I can really do, given aloof numbers.
It works! It works! I don't exist!

#5 greytail

greytail

    Viridis umbra

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,916 posts

Posted 25 August 2005 - 05:14 PM

I will submit myself as a lab rat for a 13 week study of what drinking absinthe each night of those 13 weeks would do to oneself. So long as the best of the best is provided free of charge. :cheers:
Nos adepto quis nos mereo. Nos mereo quis nos adepto.

#6 Absomphe

Absomphe

    Krinkles the Clown™

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,598 posts

Posted 25 August 2005 - 06:46 PM

I'm sure Hiram still has partially consumed bottles of Logan Filth, Elixier, and perhaps Purple Mark kicking around somewhere that he'd be happy to donate to your most worthy cause...

Bottoms up, Herr Guinea Pig! :cheers:

Yes, I'm Krinkles the Clown on an absinthe a beer bender.

You got a problem with that?


#7 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,253 posts

Posted 25 August 2005 - 07:09 PM

I will submit myself as a lab rat for a 13 week study of what drinking absinthe each night of those 13 weeks would do to oneself.

Been there, done that; and I'm just fine.

:twitch:

Maker of Marteau Absinthe
Master Distiller, Gnostalgic Spirits Distillery
www.absinthemarteau.com
Confessions of an Absinthiste


#8 G&C

G&C

    ...

  • Indefinite Suspension
  • 0 posts

Posted 25 August 2005 - 10:01 PM

Me three.

#9 Skeeter

Skeeter

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 317 posts

Posted 26 August 2005 - 07:15 AM

Nice try, Greytail. We've been taking one for the team for a while now.
<--- From the funniest thread ever...

#10 Sasha

Sasha

    Newcomer

  • Neophyte
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 09:10 AM

Based on the results of the present study, the NOAEL (no-observed-adverse-effect-level) of wormwood extract of Wistar Hannover rats was estimated to be 2% (equivalent to 1.27 g/kg/day in males and 2.06 g/kg/day in females) or more.

PMID: 14746350 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



This is an interesting study, but the problem I see with it is that we don't know how concentrated this 'extract' is, or it's components. If it is water-based (as most extracts are), then it would most likely be composed more of absinthine than thujone. On the other hand, a tincture (usually an alcohol base) would contain more volatile chemicals such as thujone, and the actual essential oil of wormwood would of course have the highest concentration of thujone. So the rats had no problems ingesting 2% of this extract, but what percentage of the extract contained thujone (or other chemicals from wormwood)?

I would like to read the entire article on this study, as it may contain more information that we could extrapolate into safe levels for humans to ingest. Well, theoretically, as some drugs that are okay for rats aren't necessarily safe for humans.

#11 Sasha

Sasha

    Newcomer

  • Neophyte
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 03:24 PM

A kind soul took pity on me and sent me a pdf of the article :) . A lot of very interesting information, but I'm too sleepy and tispy to get through it all right now. The researchers had also tried out a 5% group, and though those rats didn't show any adverse effects, many of them rejected the water, lost weight, and so the 5% got thrown out. The extract was mostly unknown, but they had some thujone info on it:

This extract is the mixture of unknown substances including α and β thujone that has been reported to have a neurotoxic action (John et al., 1999; Olsen, 2000). The concentration of α thujone that is more toxic in the wormwood extract has been reported to be 0.53 to 1.22% (Lawrence, 1995).



#12 Jane Avril

Jane Avril

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 431 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 03:28 PM

I wonder what effect pork chops would have had on the rats...
Lizard licks his eyeball. -- Burt Bacharach

#13 Ari (Eric Litton)

Ari (Eric Litton)

    Meega, nala kweesta!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,546 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 05:59 PM

Although it would be nice to have a break-down of the extract used I think a wormwood extract is more important than just a dose of thujone. Since it is wormwood (and not pure thujone) that is used in absinthe, and most absinthe contains a very tiny amount of thujone. Thujone is also quickly metabolized in the liver, so a medium length dose study probably wouldn't show much.
"Oscar Wilde once traveled to an all-cat dimension and appeared on the Late-Late Show with Catman O'Brien."

#14 Nymphadora

Nymphadora

    Very silly. Very silly indeed.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,639 posts

Posted 12 August 2006 - 07:59 AM

I think the cause of cancer is Rats. Everything you inject into a rat, they turn it into cancer.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

#15 Gwydion Stone

Gwydion Stone

    Propriétaire

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,253 posts

Posted 12 August 2006 - 08:22 AM

Not far from the truth. As I recall, rats used in research are bred for the capacity to develop cancer easily. I'll ask one of the scientists when I go to work Monday.

Thujone is also quickly metabolized in the liver, so a medium length dose study probably wouldn't show much.

Also, it's effects have been shown to be negated when ingested along with alcohol, even in what would otherwise be toxic amounts.

Ari has written a great article on thujone which I'll be adding to the web site soon.

Maker of Marteau Absinthe
Master Distiller, Gnostalgic Spirits Distillery
www.absinthemarteau.com
Confessions of an Absinthiste


#16 TheGreenOne

TheGreenOne

    Makes Poor Choices

  • Indefinite Suspension
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,774 posts

Posted 12 August 2006 - 12:27 PM

Not far from the truth. As I recall, rats used in research are bred for the capacity to develop cancer easily.

It's going to depend on the specific strain of rat. Different rat types are used for different tests. Rat gender is also going to make a difference for certain substances. If I recall correctly, it's the F5 rats (shorthand terminology) that will get cancer as soon as look at them.

I prefer green rats as they produce the best xit.

#17 Jane Avril

Jane Avril

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 431 posts

Posted 12 August 2006 - 01:41 PM

Laboratories cause cancer in rats.
Lizard licks his eyeball. -- Burt Bacharach

#18 Grey Boy

Grey Boy

    The Snitty One™

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,737 posts

Posted 13 August 2006 - 08:43 AM

I prefer green rats as they produce the best xit.

Agreed.
I'm gonna meet pierreverte!

#19 OMG_Bill

OMG_Bill

    Complete Absinthe Geek

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,172 posts

Posted 13 August 2006 - 09:29 AM

Sounds right. I hardly ever hear of a rat with cancer unless it has been exposed to a laboratory of some sort.

Pesky labs.

:wave2:
Some folks may cringe each time I use the term "Booze" regarding these high quality drinks.
I mean no offense. There are bottles of extraordinary booze out there. I've tasted a few. Relax.

#20 TrainerAZ

TrainerAZ

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,052 posts

Posted 15 August 2006 - 09:52 AM

I prefer green rats as they produce the best xit.

I will not eat green ratxit and ham.
I will not eat it, Sam-I-Am.
bacon's great, but i'm more of a sausage eater. - CG

#21 hissykitties

hissykitties

    Ms. Sassypuss

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,601 posts

Posted 15 August 2006 - 01:03 PM

Green RatXit is mighty tasty.
"The less I behave like Whistler's mother the night before, the more I look like her the morning after." ~ Tallulah Bankhead

#22 TheGreenOne

TheGreenOne

    Makes Poor Choices

  • Indefinite Suspension
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,774 posts

Posted 15 August 2006 - 04:01 PM

Good and good for you.

#23 Preacher

Preacher

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 62 posts

Posted 13 April 2007 - 05:14 PM

I suddenly got an odd idea in my head. If I was ever going to need to eat a rat, I am sure it would have been nice to do my own absinthe rat experiment. YUMMY :twitchsmile:
I have been eating cats in Morocco, but the lack of absinthe made the taste not too good...

#24 Larspeart

Larspeart

    Advanced 'member'...

  • Silver Member
  • 1,816 posts

Posted 12 August 2007 - 09:28 PM

I think the cause of cancer is Rats. Everything you inject into a rat, they turn it into cancer.



That may be the funniest thing you've ever said.

May be...

"Here's to the corkscrew - a useful key to unlock the storehouse of wit, the treasury of laughter, the front door of fellowship, and the gate of pleasant folly." - W.E.P. French

We're only immortal
For a limited time.


#25 OMG_Bill

OMG_Bill

    Complete Absinthe Geek

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,172 posts

Posted 13 August 2007 - 04:46 AM

Rats are such lovely but delicate creatures. :)
Some folks may cringe each time I use the term "Booze" regarding these high quality drinks.
I mean no offense. There are bottles of extraordinary booze out there. I've tasted a few. Relax.

#26 Boggy

Boggy

    Delusions of Competence

  • Canned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts

Posted 13 August 2007 - 05:41 AM

:heart: Rats are perfect creatures
Surviving the attacks of mentally-deficient creatures of the dark and carrying on (since 1999).
 
[Ironically, 1999 is the year the Dunning-Kruger effect was first advanced. - Admin]=


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright © 2014 The Wormwood Society Absinthe Association