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Any herbs NOT allowed in a proper absinthe?

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From what I understand, it is only the Florence Fennel that produces a bulb suitable for eating. This might correspond to the size of the bulb as well as flavor.

 

This site might be useful for growing F.f. in your garden. A search using the phrase "florence fennel" will produce a wealth of information.

 

 

 

But I'm stunned by the pictures and what's what. I'm wondering if a lot of these different species/varieties really produce very similar seeds and the only way to know how they differ is from the actual plants producing them. Is this where we get our lesson in Botany?

 

Edit: With a bit of searching, it appears that there is one accepted species of fennel. That is Foeniculum vulgare P. Mill. There are two subspecies and four varieties

  • subsp. piperitum
  • subsp. vulgare var. azoricum
  • subsp. vulgare var. dulce
  • subsp. vulgare var. vulgare

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Yep. Technically speaking, it's all common fennel.

 

A large part of the differences can be accounted for by growing conditions: location, climate, length of growing season, etc. and of course harvest times.

 

Fennel taxonomy has been largely muddled up with common names and improperly rendered botanical names, not to mention disagreement between botanists. Here's a list sorting the many names and what they really refer to. The " -> " points to the actual name. This list comes from here, where there is a lot more information; it's the best taxonomic info on fennel I've found so far. And of course, they have one on Artemisias too, but it's not yet complete.

  • Foeniculum azoricum Mill. (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. azoricum (Mill.) Thell. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum capillaceum Gilib. (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum capillaceum Gilib. subsp. piperitum (Ucria) Rouy & Camus (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. piperitum (Ucria) Cout. (GRIN) (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum commune Bubani (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. (GRIN) (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum dulce DC. (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. azoricum (Mill.) Thell. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum dulce Mill. (GRIN) (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. var. vulgare (GRIN)
  • Foeniculum dulce Mill. (GRIN) (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum dulce Mill. (GRIN) (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. dulce (Mill.) Batt. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum foeniculum (L.) H. Karst. (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. (GRIN) (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum officinale All. (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum officinale All. var. dulce Alef. (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. azoricum (Mill.) Thell. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum officinale All. var. piperitum (Ucria) Alef. (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. piperitum (Ucria) Cout. (GRIN) (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum officinale All. var. silvestre Alef. (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum panmorium (Roxb.) DC. (Considered by some authors as a separate var. of Foeniculum vulgare subsp. vulgare others classify it as a synonym of Foeniculum vulgare Mill.)
  • Foeniculum piperitum (Ucria) Sweet (GRIN) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. piperitum (Ucria) Cout. (GRIN) (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum sativum Bertol (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. dulce (Mill.) Batt. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. (GRIN) (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. convar. azoricum (Mill.) J. Holub -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. azoricum (Mill.) Thell. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. convar. sativum (C. Presl) J. Holub -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. dulce (Mill.) Batt. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. piperitum (Ucria) Cout. (GRIN) (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. silvestre (Brot.) Janchen (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. azoricum (Mill.) Thell. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. dulce (Mill.) Batt. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. var. azoricum (Mill.) Thell. (GRIN)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. var. dulce (Mill.) Batt. (GRIN)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. var. dulce (Mill.) Battand. & Trabut (Mansf) (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. dulce (Mill.) Batt. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. var. sativum Presl (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. dulce (Mill.) Batt. (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. var. silvestre Presl (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. vulgare (Mansf)
  • Foeniculum vulgare Mill. var. vulgare (GRIN) (Mansf) -> Foeniculum vulgare Mill. subsp. vulgare var. vulgare (Mansf)

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That's a vast list, thanks :) One remark: in Polish "koper włoski" means "fenkuł", whereas "koperek" without any adjective (whether Roman or Italian) is Anethum graveolens.

 

The fennel below I have bought this weekend in warsaw, no particular names, sold in 70g, 100g or 1kg version. Have a look and tell me which type it might be?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7846634@N08/460451865/

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Is fennel the strongest flavor in LDFs CLB? I can taste the anise but in the background. I'm trying to teach my self to identify the individual flavors. I will buy some of them off the grocery spice rack. But until I can any help breaking down my CLB.

Thanks

TR.out

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Don't tease the boy, Elfn.

 

Willy, the actual abbreviation for the absinthe you're drinking is CLB (Clandestine La Bleue). I don't think it's dominant flavor is fennel, but I'm not the best judge of these things.

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I have always wondered that, and it came up at a recent absinthe tasting event. We've all (or, a lot of us have had) 'straight anise' or darn near straight anise booze (like Arak, Ouzo, Anisette, etc). Many of us have had the (depending on personal taste and preference) heavy wormwood beverages. But, I don't think I have ever had a 'Fennel Bomb' drink yet, and hence, while I have had a lot of drinks with fennel in it, I can't think of a one where fennel was the PREDOMINATE herb, to where it was more then a highlight.

 

 

What is out there for that? In other words, if I wanted to truely get a good taste of a fennel-based liqueor, what options would I have?

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I thought I did recognized that when I said it was mickey mouse and said cheers to you. I thought he was hostile but it is mickey mouse. no harm no bad vibes I think were all o.k. here. Boy I hope this resolves any misunderstanding. This Willy I don't accept.

TR. out

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I have to ask, what do you mean by "I'll live Willy for my mistakes" and "I'll take Willy." Or "This Willy I don't accept." I don't understand why you're using your name in those sentences.

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Where - is - my - damn - decoder - ring?!!!

 

Sorry, but I have to say, I have a hard time making much sense from any of your posts WillY.

Is there a method to yer madness?

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Someone shall willify your decoder, Elf or willexplain at least. What has Wickey Wouse to do with all that, anyway?

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I like to keep samples of all the herbs commonly found in absinthe available. When absinthe friends come over, the conversation will frequently be about the various herbs. We look, we munch and eventually, someone will simply have to taste the Wormwood. :devil:

 

post-371-1176386153_thumb.jpg

 

Left: Common fennel. Right: Florence Fennel.

 

 

I've been accumulating samples for the same purpose (and, quite honestly, to try to help me figure out which contributes the various tastes). I've been successful getting most of the "core" herbs, but a few have been hard to acquire. In particular, angelica seed has been hard to find. Further, while dittany has been described as a component in some absinthe, I have yet to find a recipe that indicates such, and no source for it to boot. I may be forced to grow my own (along with a few of the other herbs I have in the yard).

 

Likewise, the various plants that go by the generic name "genepi" have been difficult to track down. As has been a source for A. pontica. Again, I may have to try growing my own. The A. absinthium I have in the yard is looking great this year (although the aphids seem to find it tasty :angry2: ). The Powis Castle I've got in the ground and in a container look especially nice and smell wonderful when "stroked." On the subject of herbs not allowed, (knowing this question has been asked before), why not use the Powis Castle? It is fragrant and appealing. Is it really so bitter or otherwise unpleasant or is it more a case that the A. absinthium and A. pontica just taste/perform better?

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It does have a very nice fragrance and it's not very bitter, but in my opinion it just doesn't give the correct wormwood profile for a proper absinthe. I suppose it could be used in small proportions as an adjunct, but it would never do as a substitute.

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Does anyone want to try their hand at describing the differences between the six different kinds of coriander?

 

 

 

Hm.... :g: Thai palm sugar, would that be OK in an absinthe?

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This is the first time back to the site since my last post. Wow,I certainly didn't expect this. I though with calling me willy I was going with the flow. Besides I felt it had certain comedic qualities " I don't accept you're willy" it's worth a giggle. Mickey mouse was saying it was unimportant,insignificant not worth the hassle. Boy was I wrong O.k I apologize to all concerned

 

To Absomphe(post#166)

Yes I :wub: my willy and he :wub:s me

 

TR. out

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Willy, I don't want to come across as being mean, but it is REALLY hard to understand your posts. I am certainly not one to speak of post content, since all I ever post is silliness. However, my posts can be understood (mostly). You might want to just slow down and think a bit. You're confusing us, but then again, I'm easily confused. :cheers:

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It is so easy to misunderstand in a forum: communication without inflection. That's one reason I like emoticons. If I go ;) , everyone knows I'm teasing, right? The best bet is to always assume everyone has a good attitude and no one meant any harm 'cuz that's usually the case.

 

Unless you're that damn-hard-to-get-along-with-PB! No one gets along with THAT jerk! ;)

See what I mean?

 

 

 

 

In case anyone misunderstood, PB is in the Top 5 of WS folks I most want to have a drink with but haven't had the chance...yet. :cheers:

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Well Shabba if thats you're opinion. Then o.k.

 

 

I think it's more making a point. You seem to get offended at most remarks that people are making, even though they are bantering like they do with everyone else. You aren't being made fun of or getting picked on, they are joking with you. Just try not to take offense to everything, and see the posts for what they are, friendly joking around.

 

We're all friends here!

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