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Any herbs NOT allowed in a proper absinthe?

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To quailfy as an absinthe the general consensus is it must have fennel, green anise, and wormwood. However, many brands add to this minimum requirement all sorts of herbs including mint, melissa, coriander, and calamus to name a few.

 

I read a thread that mentioned Chartreuse, and the fact that it has 130 herbs in it. I know it's a secret only the monks have, but is there even a partial list somewhere of the herbs in Chartreuse? It sounds prohibitively expensive to put so many herbs in a beverage, even if you only use a small amount of each. Do you think it contains any fennel and green anise? In that case would only the addition of some wormwood make it an absinthe?

 

So the question is, although absinthe must have the trinity of herbs, is there anything that you cannot include which would make it no longer an absinthe? It might not please everyone's palate, but would it still be a proper absinthe? For example, could you add saffron to an absinthe?

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Montmartre contains cinnamon, and is considered an absinthe, so I don't see any reason for the proscription of saffron.

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Chartreuse contains fennel, star anise, coriander, angelica root, or tansy to name a few.

 

As I have been writing before in Chartreuse thread, nowadays 130 herbs is a past.

 

Chartreuse is made to a different recipe, requires different methods of production and is sugared which would disqualify it as even an absinthe substitute. Spices should NEVER be used in absinthe, yet Montmartre is a nice exception.

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Chartreuse contains fennel, star anise, coriander, angelica root, or tansy to name a few.

 

As I have been writing before in Chartreuse thread, nowadays 130 herbs is a past.

 

Chartreuse is made to a different recipe, requires different methods of production and is sugared which would disqualify it as even an absinthe substitute. Spices should NEVER be used in absinthe, yet Montmartre is a nice exception.

 

 

There's a good rule of thumb. Herbs yes, spices no.

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I couldn't disagree more. Anise and fennel are both spices, absinthist. Personally, I think any herb or spice that adds to the flavor of an absinthe is fair game. I think the cinnamon in the Montmarte gives it a unique flavor that is a welcome addition to the numerous absinthes out there. Others disagree. Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of individual taste.

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They have never been considered as a spice since spices are those having no medicinal properties, they are herbs.

 

Where did you find that information? As long as I am dealing with them no one has EVER considered them as a spice.

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Uh oh. Some plants are BOTH an herb and a spice.

 

"Some plants are both herbs and spices. The leaves of Coriandrum sativum are the source of cilantro (herb) while coriander (spice) is from the plant's seeds. Dill is another example. The seeds are a spice while dill weed is an herb derived from the plant's stems and leaves."

 

http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/20...rbsnspices.html

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In case of coriander it may be, yet aniseed and fennel are FIRST herbs used in medicine (already mentioned by St Hildegard of Bingen) whereas CAN be used as a spice. Since absinthe will always be a medicinal tonic, they, as used in the production, are herbs.

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More appropriate to the matter at hand:

 

Herbs are obtained from the leaves of herbaceous (non-woody) plants. They are used for savory purposes in cooking and some have medicinal value. Herbs often are used in larger amounts than spices. Herbs originated from temperate climates such as Italy, France, and England. Herb also is a word used to define any herbaceous plant that dies down at the end of the growing season and may not refer to its culinary value at all.

 

Spices are obtained from roots, flowers, fruits, seeds or bark. Spices are native to warm tropical climates and can be woody or herbaceous plants. Spices often are more potent and stronger flavored than herbs; as a result they typically are used in smaller amounts. Some spices are used not only to add taste, but also as a preservative.

 

Whether it is considered an herb or a spice has nothing to do with its healing properties, but what part of the plant it comes from. Herbs come from the leafy portions of the plant, while spices come from seeds, bark, and roots. Thus oregano, which is not typically revered for its healing properties still maintains its status as an herb, while cayenne pepper, which does have reputed healing properties, is a spice.

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Spices often are more potent and stronger flavored than herbs; as a result they typically are used in smaller amounts.

 

If they are spices, their amount in absinthe would be then smaller and as we all know it is rather huge.

 

In "Recepariusz zielarski" from 1960, both fennel and aniseed are considered herbs and used in absinthe not only add the flavour, but first of all, give out anethole and help with stomach problems and such.

 

Origano's healing properties are: cholagogum and stomachicum, so I would not say it is not typically revered for.

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I'm talking about the distinction made in the English language between the two words. I'm not sure what "Recepariusz zielarski" is, but I'd be willing to wager it isn't in English. English makes no distinction between whether a plant has healing properties in regards to whether it can be called an herb or a spice. The only distinction between the two terms is where on the plant it comes from. Thus, cilantro is an herb, while coriander is a spice.

 

And that's the last I'm going to say on the matter.

 

Edit: I lied. To drive the point home, from this site on typical usage mistakes made in English.

 

People not seriously into cooking often mix up herbs and spices. Generally, flavorings made up of stems, leaves, and flowers are herbs; and those made of bark, roots, and seeds and dried buds are spices. An exception is saffron, which is made of flower stamens but is a spice. When no distinction is intended, the more generic term is “spice”; you have a spice cabinet, not a spice-and-herb cabinet, and you spice your food, even when you are adding herbs as well. The British pronounce the H in “herb” but Americans follow the French in dropping it.

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But we are not discussing lingusitic aspects. In Polish, it is different, aniseed is always a herb, whereas for example cinnamon would be considered a spice.

 

"RZ" is an old manual relased by Herbapol, in English, it is "Herbal recipes compendium", very helpful one, indeed.

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But we are not discussing lingusitic aspects.

 

That's exactly what you're doing. You're explaining what herbs and spices are, based on your language's definition, and Martin is doing the same with the english definition. There are many words that don't translate exactly between languages. This may be another example.

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That's caused by a vacuum in the joint fluid rapidly collapsing, creating a popping noise.

 

At least I assume that's what you meant by "joint."

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Sooo, if your joint goes "pop", is that an herb or a spice? :devil:

 

 

I think the leaves would be an herb, and the seed doing the "popping" would be a spice, if I understand the definitions now. Unless Martin is right and you have a bad knee or something.

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Thanks Shabba :cheers: This means we are BOTH right :) ; by differences grow people's values and the discussion (since we are discussing the same thing) can be very intriguing as we are using completely different definitions.

 

It reminds of EU directive that carrot is a fruit not a vegetable otherwise the Portuguese making carrot jam would have to pay more for introducing it on the market :D

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It reminds of EU directive that carrot is a fruit not a vegetable otherwise the Portuguese making carrot jam would have to pay more for introducing it on the market :D

A root fruit? I really would have thought that referred to something else. No, actually, carrot jam is just about on the mark.

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As long as EU directive demands them to be, they will. Thank God you do not have to deal with them everyday :cheers:

 

According to "Pharmacology and Recipe" by Dr A. Danysz published in 1955, those herbs (so your spices) that have a stronger influence should be extracted through percolation, not maceration and we do not percolate absinthe, do we? Just to top it off :cheers:

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Oddly, this VERY topic has been discussed in many of the literature and journal articles published pre-1800 that I have been researching in the archive/database content I posted about in another thread last week. The recipes for the EARLIEST absinthes (that we've yet been able to track down), or even earlier 'near-abinthes' contain ingredients like honey, wine, cocaine, dill, nutmeg, and bay... among other things.

 

In my opinion, and many, many others have agreed here, it is 'technically' an absinthe as long as it is a distilled liquor, at a high (100+) proof, and most importantly contains anise, fennel, and AA.

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"In my opinion, and many, many others have agreed here, it is 'technically' an absinthe as long as it is a distilled liquor, at a high (100+) proof, and most importantly contains anise, fennel, and AA."

 

 

End of story™.

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So let it be written..

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Moses to the rescue! :)

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"In my opinion, and many, many others have agreed here, it is 'technically' an absinthe as long as it is a distilled liquor, at a high (100+) proof, and most importantly contains anise, fennel, and AA."

 

 

End of story™.

 

 

Glad I could break it down to its easiest level.

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Oddly, this VERY topic has been discussed in many of the literature and journal articles published pre-1800 that I have been researching in the archive/database content I posted about in another thread last week. The recipes for the EARLIEST absinthes (that we've yet been able to track down), or even earlier 'near-abinthes' contain ingredients like honey, wine, cocaine, dill, nutmeg, and bay... among other things.

 

In my opinion, and many, many others have agreed here, it is 'technically' an absinthe as long as it is a distilled liquor, at a high (100+) proof, and most importantly contains anise, fennel, and AA.

 

They perfectly agree on how much you say, true absinthe must contain the 3 essential herbes from you quoted, the other herbes, seeds or roots they personalize the distillate and to make him/it only otherwise absinthes would be all equal ones. Middly an absinthe contains from 5 to 12 herbes, ciao a tutti.

 

how much writing imho

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