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Posts posted by dakini_painter

  1. Something is quite wrong, everyone is agreeing.


    For those in the know, how were the oils procured? Through trial and error of commercially produced essential oils or through a home made steam distillation contraption (would it still be called a still?)? why am I ending all my sentences with question marks? Will underdog be able to escape the dastardly doc duo or is this the end? Tune in next time?



    Lasalla's price makes it good for a mixer or 'filler' absinthe for a non WS event style party.

    Yes, terrible the we're agreeing. Maybe we're all just tired after our efforts in the "Pernod Recommendation?". It would also be that I spent most of the day reading all the english translations of the distiller's manuals. More on that later (no I'm not going to ask how to become an HG'ess)


    My only thought would be that Hiram said extract not essential oils. The latter are very dangerous to take internally. They all say not for internal consumption. Otherwise we'll all be waving bye at Ari. :wave2: Since we'll miss you, we don't want that to happen.


    OK, this is about as good as my brain can handle right now.(Oh, can I not type correctly today.) More absinthe.

  2. Hill's, on the other hand, is a totally different thing. The point is not that it is a foul drink, but that it doesn't have any of the characteristics associated with absinthe.

    Good morning Gertz!


    This is a point we should make sure Alan understand (perhaps he already does). Perhaps we've beaten this to death (when are you going to get it, Dakini? PTFA! I'm sorry I'm so slow and dim-witted. All those years of smoking pot (long ago) have addled my brain.)


    Perhaps having a louche is also necessary for the standard definition? It's a pretty unique quality of absinthe, and one that we rightly cherish.


    Anyone for HillsIsn'tAbsinthe.com? KoSSucks.com?

  3. The Golden Spooge Award?


    Um, spooge shouldn't be golden.


    :laf: Good Morning Trainer!


    I just didn't want to take a swipe at a brand I personally hadn't tasted. I was only commenting on the various opinions of our absintheurs here. Though I've seen posts from our members saying they were ordering a bottle, or in Our Most Popular Thread imbibing some on a particular evening.


    As such, I was noting their marketing, ah, spin.


    Oh, it says F. Guy has won the Golden Absinthe Spoon award as the best French absinthe. And it has an excellent bouquet. Without looking further I must order some. :cheers:


    (This is my feeble attempt at sarcasm, as from what I've read here many/most/all of you would say F. Guy is an "anise-bomb". It's probably misplaced sarcasm, as I'm sure I'll be corrected.)



  5. Dr Cocktail's excellent absinthe definition...



    Thanks Doc! And thanks to Gertz as well for the description of historical crapsinthe. And Hartsmar for all his patient answers to my questions.


    Does Doc's definition cover all the brands that we'd want to consider absinthe? I'm sure no one in WS drinks Doub's; is that considered absinthe? I only ask because I remember from FV it got pretty good reviews even though it's not distilled, but mixed and macerated. (As I understand it from their brand listing.) I probably wouldn't buy it myself as, like most (all?) of WS I seem to be really enjoying the small number of distilled absinthes in my meager collection. And I thought Hiram said that "mixed and macerated" without distillation was a historical method of making some absinthes. I presume these were absinthe ordinaire? Please correct me, if I've misconstrued anything, or everything as the case may be.


    Anyway, it's late now and time for sleeping.

  6. Holy crap, I can't believe this thread consumed my whole evening. (and now my morning)


    Because we're passionate about what we drink, believe in quality, honest business practices, etc. etc. This is Important™.



    One problem with Czechsinth on eAbsinthe and other absinth(e) marketing sites is that they promote the Czech products as absinthe (or even absinth). It is not absinthe. It is poorly rectified alcohol, questionable herbal oils, and artificial coloring all blended together.


    And how is that different from the cheapest crap in the Belle Epoque? Which actually contained downright poisonous ingredients. And those products were labeled "Absinthe" and sold as such.


    (At least that is what is believed. Cupric acetate is not good for you.) From A MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)



    May cause burning pain in the mouth, esophagus, and stomach. Hemorrhagic gastritis, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, metallic taste, and diarrhea may occur. If vomiting does not occur immediately systemic copper poisoning may occur. Symptoms may include capillary damage, headache, cold sweat, weak pulse, kidney and liver damage, central nervous excitation followed by depression, jaundice, convulsions, blood effects, paralysis and coma. Death may occur from shock or renal failure. "


    If there hadn't been all those low quality brands, maybe absinthe never would have been banned in the first place. (Supposition on my part. The French banned it to stop their soldiers from drinking it. So they'd fight those dirty bouches, defend the French race, etc.)



    I'm not defending the czech stuff. It's probably safer to drink than what Van Gogh drank, is my guess. But I don't see how you can simply define out of existence as not absinth(e). Not when even worse was perpetrated on an unsuspecting public during absinthe's heyday. But I bet it tasted better back then. (Question: have any bottles of cheap absinthe survived and been analyzed?)


    But maybe it's true after all, absinthe does make you crazy. :cheers:

  7. When it comes to the gov'mint (EU, US and others) on regulating and legalizing absinthe, they'll probably consider only two ingredients: alcohol and wormwood. Why? Because they are the two known ingredients in absinthe with known deleterious health effects when used to excess. That's why there's limits on the thujone content in any spirit/food. Note how in the article on Absinthism I posted indicates, these medical researchers consider czechsnithe and Jade the same in this regard.


    Not necessarily. In France there are also regulations for fenchone, which is why there is little or no fennel in the La Bleues sold in France for instance.


    Setting up regulations would require much thought and research. Not even the EU or US governments are stupid enough to simply say - ok, here - alcohol and wormwood makes absinthe. Because in that case, 90% of all swedish aquavits would be able to be classified as absinthes.


    There would have to be regulations regarding natural/artificial ingredients, method of manufacture etc. It's no easy task. Just reading through the pages in this thread proves that.



    Agreed. But I wouldn't assume that the US gov't wouldn't do something stupid. They do that already. See, the Europeans are smarter. :D


    According to Wiki Akvavit reference they don't mention wormwood as an ingredient. I'm admitting total ignorance here. Does this beverage contain wormwood, or other thujone-containing substances which may cause it to be regulated like absinthe? Or is there some other reason they'd be considered absinthes?


    Well I hope the EU doesn't decide to "normalize" fenchone regulations. Now searching that... From the Online Herbal Dictionary says:

    "French sweet or Roman Fennel yields only 2.1 per cent. of oil, containing much less anethol and with a milder and sweeter taste, probably due to the entire absence of the bitter fenchone." This statement is supported by research summaries at Purdue University So perhaps it is possible to use certain fennels and remain under the French limit of 5 mg/L?



    btw, dakini_painter is a she. :) And thanks for all the useful information.

  8. Keep in mind that the only reason I'm using eAbsinthe as an example is because it started out there... Alandia for instance have a way broader range of total shit on their site.


    But on their site (which came up when I searched for "absinthe suisse") I found a preview for:


    Coming soon: Absinthe Maison ALANDIA


    Very soon we will present you this finest Absinthe. Maison ALANDIA was developed in partnership with "deep forest", an internationally known Absintheur respected for his experience in the field of Absinthe distillation. Deep Forest already proofed his skills with the creation of the Eichelberger Absinthes, which have received high recommendations in the Absinthe Community all over the world. With his support the aim was to create the most authentic Absinthe, dedicated to history and accomplished in a herbal composition. We are very proud to announce the result, Maison ALANDIA - A Historical Dedication.



    So I guess this means "deep forest" has sold out to the Dark Side. What a shame...

  9. I'm pretty much with Gertz on this one. But when someone tries to get this codified into law, multinational law, who's gonna win? Consumers? I actually bet not. Varga, with his high octane wormwood tea, is. Maybe that's a defeatist attitude, but nobody has pointed to a historical precedent of a definition yet for me. Did the Swiss write a new definition or fall back on something that was in the books pre-ban? Could the Swiss carry the fight in the EU if the issue was pressed? How does their definition deal with quality oil-mixes or even distilled products with unusual components? Without a definition we're tilting at windmills. With a definition I fear the windmills may blow our refined distinctions away.




    Thanks Ari, I was just reviewing this thread, when I returned here to see your post. Believe me, I'm trying.


    and from Hiram in the other thread listed above on the traditional definitions from the distiller's manuals. [Edited for brevity]

    ... there is no "official" definition anywhere yet.


    This may be a good time to revisit  some of the traditional distinctions as given us by the old distiller's manuals: ordinaire, semi-fine, fine, extra-fine, suisse, etc.


    According to both Duplais and Fritsch, an absinthe ordinaire would be low-proof with fairly low herb content and according to Duplais, needn't contain fennel.  Fritsch specifies Florence fennel for suisse absinthes only, the others simply getting "fennel."  De Brevans gives a demi-fine absinthe with no fennel, and sometimes specifies sweet fennel (Foeniculum vulgare var. dulce) as opposed to Florence fennel (Foeniculam vulgare var. azoricum), as does Duplais.


    The increase in rank from ordinaire to extra-fine is generally accompanied by an increasing volume and variety of herbs, as well as greater alcoholic strength.  All of these, according to Duplais, may or may not be oil mixes and may or may not be artificially colored.


    What has set the standard to which we expect an absinthe to aspire, and about which we argue infinitely, is the absinthe suisse. I find no account where an absinthe suisse lacks grand and petite wormwood, anise and Florence fennel.


    Just [absinthe] for thought.


    I'd been wondering about this as well. So that's cleared up. However...


    When it comes to the gov'mint (EU, US and others) on regulating and legalizing absinthe, they'll probably consider only two ingredients: alcohol and wormwood. Why? Because they are the two known ingredients in absinthe with known deleterious health effects when used to excess. That's why there's limits on the thujone content in any spirit/food. Note how in the article on Absinthism I posted indicates, these medical researchers consider czechsnithe and Jade the same in this regard.


    Science won't care whether the absinthe is distilled or not, whether it contains the Trinity or not, whether it's absinthe suisse or absinthe inferior. As far as I know (but I'm no expert so please correct me), you couldn't ingest enough fennel or anise to kill you.


    Pan Buh is right, IMHO, if there's any regulation on absinthe (with an "e") the gov'mint will probably end up allowing the czech swill to be called that as well. I don't like that either, but Rant on.


    The real problem is public perception of absinthe as a "legal", dangerous, hallucinogenic, drug and the use of that perception by the czechsnithe manufacturer's to hype their product and gain market share.



    Anyway, that's what I think this morning. Maybe by afternoon, y'll have convinced me otherwise.


  10. I haven't finished reading this as it is quite long. Basically an article at the NIH (US National Institute of Health) online.




    Below is the Abstract of this article. Basically they say there was no such thing as absinthism as different from alcoholism. That current levels of thujone in modern absinthe is not dangerous nor posing a health risk. But that thujone is being used as a marketing ploy by some to sell absinthe as a "legal drug-of-abuse". The bold emphasis is mine.


    Absinthism: a fictitious 19th century syndrome with present impact



    Absinthe, a bitter spirit containing wormwood (Artemisia absinthium L.), was banned at the beginning of the 20th century as consequence of its supposed unique adverse effects. After nearly century-long prohibition, absinthe has seen a resurgence after recent de-restriction in many European countries. This review provides information on the history of absinthe and one of its constituent, thujone. Medical and toxicological aspects experienced and discovered before the prohibition of absinthe are discussed in detail, along with their impact on the current situation. The only consistent conclusion that can be drawn from those 19th century studies about absinthism is that wormwood oil but not absinthe is a potent agent to cause seizures. Neither can it be concluded that the beverage itself was epileptogenic nor that the so-called absinthism can exactly be distinguished as a distinct syndrome from chronic alcoholism.


    The theory of a previous gross overestimation of the thujone content of absinthe may have been verified by a number of independent studies. Based on the current available evidence, thujone concentrations of both pre-ban and modern absinthes may not have been able to cause detrimental health effects other than those encountered in common alcoholism. Today, a questionable tendency of absinthe manufacturers can be ascertained that use the ancient theories of absinthism as a targeted marketing strategy to bring absinthe into the spheres of a legal drug-of-abuse. Misleading advertisements of aphrodisiac or psychotropic effects of absinthe try to re-establish absinthe's former reputation. In distinction from commercially manufactured absinthes with limited thujone content, a health risk to consumers is the uncontrolled trade of potentially unsafe herbal products such as absinthe essences that are readily available over the internet.

  11. Please forgive me for chiming in here, I know I'm still a newbie. There's a lot of absinthe's I haven't tried and there's a lot I don't know. But this forum is about absinthe education.


    Wormwood, please don't take anything personally here. There are folks on this forum who've been drinking absinthe for 15 years. I guess perhaps some have gotten roaring drunk (that's not a judgment). The gist of what they say from their own experience is that you won't TRIP BALLZ®, hallucinate, or paint like Van Gogh or write like Verlaine. If you want those kind of experiences, you'll probably be disappointed in absinthe. You'll just have to find some drugs, and that shouldn't be too hard to do.


    From what I've read in this forum, a good number of the folks have had the chance to taste authentic pre-ban Pernod Fils absinthe. They say it's the best of the best. And no, they didn't get high from it. And in scientific measurements of its thujone content, it's amazingly low, something like 3 mg/L (but that's from memory).


    And if you just want to get drunk, your local liquor store has a wide variety of alcoholic beverages, in many flavors and potencies in order to do that. You might as well save your money on all those flying monkey charges you'll accumulate if you drink absinthe.


    I want to congratulate you on your absinthe purchases. I haven't tried them personally, but they get very high ratings from those who have. And LdF is a great vendor. Depending on where you are in the country, the flying monkeys will be at your doorstep shortly and you'll have the chance to try some really good tasting absinthe. I, for one, hope you like it.


    Wormwood, I don't think you're some bad person. Not even for drinking KoS. At least you didn't set the sugar on fire :D There's simply a lot of popular sites that offer hype about the effects of absinthe and want to sell that ultra-expensive KoS and the like. It seems like old, inaccurate information never really dies, it just gets recycled on the internet. A lot of folks believe just what you believe(d). Absinthe is a drug. I'll get high. "It's the Thujone"™. The first two are patently false, the last highly questionable. But if you want to believe them, go right ahead.




    Let us know what you think of the Blanchette and Capricieuse.



    cg, yes those are way too many words to read. :cheers:

  12. Thanks for the correction Mindshifter. I am the one who misidentified it. The label only said "Artemisia [wormwood]" and didn't have a species identification. It's the only Artemisia in their little garden. I don't really know how to look at those drawings of a plant and really identify it, obviously.


    But I really now know what A. pontica really looks like. They probably don't have any down at the local plant nursery. For a moment thought it'd be neat, that instead of the stupid weeds growing in my yard, I could have some interesting weeds. Perhaps another time...


    Oh, Thanks for the sci names on the other plants.

  13. I was just looking at this today. I probably won't be able to describe it properly, but the 10mg limit is for spirits while the 35mg limit are for "bitters". Apparently they are an additive to a cocktail. They're called bitters, because they're, well, bitter. According to The Internet Cocktail Database there is such a thing as "absinthe bitters".


    But I'm not a cocktail person at all. Hey, wait a minute. Dr. Cocktail! Paging Dr. Cocktail. Please pick up the green paging phone nearest you. Paging Dr. Cocktail...


    Dang I type slow... :D

  14. Thanks so much, T73. All I did was stand on the shoulders of giants. The folks here are so incredibly knowledgeable. And because of the dedicated long time absintheurs and Professors of Absinthe, it's actually not that difficult to find reliable information now. But people will believe what they want to believe.


    Changing the world, one absinthe at a time. I think it's time for another absinthe. :cheers:

  15. I decided to vote for legalization of home distillation. Like someone said, I can get CO albeit for a price.


    Let a hundred distillers operate, let a hundred absinthes flow. I think there'd be a lot more cross-fertilization of ideas between those in the field perhaps if it was legal. Knowledge could be shared and made available openly. A newbie could apprentice with a pro, and avoid producing crap or something dangerous.


    By the way, the online USDA plant database is pretty neat. Our tax dollars at work for us!


    USDA Plants Database Artemesia absinthium


    USDA Plants Database Artemesia pontica


    What is the scientific name of the fennel used in absinthe? They list about a dozen "fennels". Looks like Florence fennel is readily available as a garden herb.


    What about anise?


    It's mentioned that the star anise tree can be cultivated here. Though my guess is that our friends in the Southern part of the US and well as the SW might have better luck than in the NE.


    In the herb garden at the farm there's a very tall (6+ ft) A. pontica.



  16. I sent them this little note. I hope it's all accurate.





    I was recently on your website which I find very interesting and useful. However, your entry for the wormwood species Artemisia absinthium has some inaccuracies. Your web site says:


    [what I wrote above]


    1. Absinthe is not bitter-tasting nor is it always emerald green. There are also clear absinthes, traditionally from Switzerland. The green absinthes, commonly referred to as "verte", vary in green hue due to the manufacturer's coloring protocols.

    2. Absinthe was quite popular in the 19th and early 20th centuries as you say. However, it has no psychedelic side effects. I know this from personal experience. Apparently all of the European Union knows this as well as the ban on absinthe production and sale was annulled in 1999/2000.

    3. While I'm not an expert on FDA regulations, I understand the FDA bans thujone, the so-called "active ingredient" in wormwood. However, modern science indicates that absinthe contains very little of this ingredient, 10 mg/L or less. This is also the EU regulation.

    4. Due to the FDA ban on thujone, you cannot sell absinthe in the US. There are no true absinthe liquors available in the US. However, without regulations, anyone can make an anise-flavored alcoholic beverage and call it absinthe.


    If you'd like more information on this topic by real experts, I invite you to visit the following sites for their excellent information.








    Thank you for the opportunity to help dispel old myths. I hope you get the opportunity to try authentic absinthe. It's very nice.







    I figure if they want to buy some absinthe they'll figure out how to do it. :D


    I hope I didn't come across as a Dumb Ass, Arrogant B****, or some other distasteful moniker. I really think y'all do explain it much better than I. Which is why I referred them to the web sites I listed, as when I as doing my search about absinthe, I found them most informative.


    Should I have said something different? Let me know. Really. If I get my feelings hurt, well I'll get over it. :drunk:

  17. From the web site of the Missouri Botanical Garden, Kemper Center for Home Gardening comes this bit of inaccuracte information about A.a.


    Absinthium means without sweetness in reference to the extremely bitter taste of the plant juices. An extract from this plant was once used to flavor the alcoholic beverage called absinthe, which is an aromatic, bitter-tasting, emerald green liquor. This liquor became quite popular in certain parts of Europe and the U. S. in the 19th and early 20th centuries because of its psychedelic side effects. Notwithstanding prior uses, all parts of this plant are now considered to be poisonous and the FDA has banned the use of the extract in all food products including liquors. Absinthe liquor sold in the U. S. today is artificially flavored.


    I can't wait for those psychedelic side effects to kick in!