A friend of mine asked me a question about the symbolism in this poster:



The slain green fairy is obvious, of course. I told my friend that I thought the blue cross was a temperance movement symbol. He then asked what the three men pointing upward at the black bird was about. Anyone have any idea?

A-D-D, Easy as one-two... Oooh! A bird!!

Actually, the three men are swearing an oath, identified with the founding of the Swiss Confederation in 1291.

I don't know about the bird.

The bird is flying toward us with sticks in its beak...to build a nest. Some nesting or new beginning reference most likely. Very cool artwork, though the theme is sad...imagine how those people must have felt....in fact one of the banners mentions individual liberty on the death floral ribbon. Just how we'd feel today.

... if they banned tobacco.

Or not.

I'm wondering how that ghoulish-looking geezer got that lump on his head...

Is the ghoulish-looking geezer with the bump on his head pointing to the date and time?
So what's the significance of that date?
I like the poster and would love to know the story behind it.

The green fairy didn't go down without a fight. The poster seems to tell more than one tale. Time, dates, oaths and symbols of several things. The bird is just plain bad news.

I like the poster but it bugs me at the same time. A skinny old geezer taking such pride in defeating a harmless and unarmed woman.

This was clearly made by someone who hated what was happening and was not happy about absinthe being banned. That old dude is scary.

Thanks for the link, Hiram...very interesting.

I find this poster quite odd. On its face, it would seem to celebrate the ban, but sbmac makes a good point in that the depiction of the prohibitionist suggests the artist in fact greeted this development with dismay.

I'd still like to know what the black bird is about, assuming it is more than just a bit of artwork to fill a spot in the sky.

So, the three men of Y1291 represent Switzerland in its vigorous youth...so I suppose by 1910 the Confederacy was seen to be entering decrepitude?

This poster is definitely a protest against the "Suppression of Absinthe".
The green fairy is not only defeated, but a murdered nude woman, stabbed by a cross with the same wound Jesus suffered. The flowers at her side, from the Swiss cantons which were the home of absinthe, are accompanied by a wreath and a ribbon which commemorates the loss of individual liberty. The owl (above the clock) is a symbol for death in many cultures, though I'm not sure this owl is meant to be very scary.

Compare this poster with this poster commemorating the suppression of absinthe in France five years later. Once again the Green Fairy is being ritually slain, this time in the manner of Joan of Arc, and all of France stands by weeping. The ghost of the Swiss Green Fairy, her sister, comes out of the sky to welcome her to heaven.

At the risk of derailing the thread and getting political:
Regardless of one's personal pro/con opinions on tobacco and smoking, which I respect, the early anti-absinthe movement is precisely echoed by the current tobacco prohibitionist movement: populist rhetoric fueled by dodgy science and lobbying by megalithic industrial/political interests.



Why from drinking absinthe, of course:



As Bill points out, this is definitely a protest poster. Oxy says of it:

"... originally published in the Swiss satirical revue, edited by Louis Bron, "Le Guguss". It shows a triumphant prohibitionist, dressed as a priest, trampling on the murdered figure of the Green Fairy, while in the background Helvetica [sic] mourns her lost liberties."

Helvetia is the national personification of Switzerland, named for the original inhabitants of the area, the Celtic tribes of the Helvetii.

Not sticks. The bird is a buzzard. Probably flying in to feast on the stinking corpse of the green fairy.

A similar print from 1915 mimmicks it for the french ban.




Also anti-ban, if my french is not completed lost: "Poor liberty, where have you gone?"

Are you saying you don't believe that cigarettes (in particular) are both addictive, and extremely carcinogenic, and that second hand smoke isn't harmful to the non-smoker?

I'm generally quite the objectivist when it comes to civil liberties, but, hypocritical, or not, I'll admit to being much happier since smoking has been outlawed in public buildings.

However, that being said, I'm totally opposed to denying the right of a smoker to enjoy his or her particular vice of choice (as long as it's enjoyed somewhere I'm not) so, in large part, I definitely can relate to your comparison.

We just lost a dear friend to cancer last week. Civil liberties are one thing. Poisoning people in public is another. People SHOULD be allowed to smoke if they want to, but there is no way that bystanders should be forced to inhale their 2nd-hand smoke. Yes, the burning chemicals in the smoke are more of a culprit
than the tobacco, but until tobacco is organic, it's a moot point! I don't think drinking absinthe in any way compares to tobacco, other than it being slowly put to death as something to do in public. I don't think it will ever be banned, and there is nothing like a good cigar as they say!

Here here.
I have a lot of the same issues with smoking bans that I had with helmet laws, and some loopholes need to be built back into the system to allow people to smoke in some obvious places by mutual agreement, but by and large my life has gotten better since the likelihood of being stuck in a smoke-filled room has become a thing of the past.

The dangers of second-hand smoke from one nearby smoker in a bus terminal may be arguable, but I remember being trapped in meeting rooms with fifteen chain smokers and not being able to breath anything but pure smoke. I didn't need science to tell me that wasn't good for me, or that my personal freedom to breathe was being infringed upon.

If nothing else, the bans have made it the new etiquette to step outside if you want to smoke. Given that basic social change, laws might have been considered unnecessary within a few years anyway.

Oh-oh...look at this 2010 Death of the brown fairy! Tobacco!!! Just messing with you Gwydion!
Yes, I'm an idiot.....

So, does that one banner say "au nom de la liberte individuelle?" Does that mean "in the name of individual liberty?" I can read the big words in French, but not the little ones.

I fully support smoke-free areas. I'm annoyed by smokers at bus stops and when I have to smell smoke where I don't want to. BFD. I'm also annoyed and sometimes nauseated by strong cologne, perfume and really bad B.O. And car exhaust.

However I'm also against passing laws that prohibit people from exercising their freedom to chose to run a smoking-allowed establishment. I believe in personal responsibility. Don't want to work/eat/drink around smoke? Go to non-smoking establishments. But don't tell me I can't work/eat/drink around smoke if I want to.


Aside from being addicting, yes I am. Common sense tells you it's BS. Look at the numbers being thrown out. If second-hand smoke killed, we'd all have dropped dead in the 50's.

I'm also saying that American cigarettes are not representative of tobacco in general and that they're loaded with chemical additives and have been manipulated to make them addictive. I'm saying that yes, Big Tobacco is evil, but that doesn't mean we should ban the plant and its use, it means we should regulate the industry better.

Annoying as the smoke may be, there is no science that demonstrates a link between casual second-hand smoke exposure and lung cancer. In fact, WHO and EPA studies that flopped because their findings were negative have been suppressed and lied about.

As I said, the parallel with absinthe is remarkable.

I agree with Gwydion about rights. That is why I messed with that poster. I personally have immediate tightness in my lungs from a whiff of cigarette smoke, as does my wife. People do have a right to smoke, and owners of a business should be allowed to have it in their bar for instance. Non-smokers can avoid it that way. Where I live, it is illegal everywhere. Not fair, and perhaps a knee-jerk over-reaction...the same kind that killed absinthe 100 years ago.

The result is people smoking on sidewalks, in doorways, etc...
it hasn't done any good for popular opinion when you are going to see your doctor for asthma, and have to walk through a cloud of smoke at the front door to the building. I personally feel they hang there out of a passive aggressive statement. We've made it hard for them to smoke however, so they'll do it as close to us a legally allowed. You can stand there and have a beer too, as long as it is in a paper bag. I used to smoke a pipe. I can't anymore. I suppose the bottom line is if your behavior is endangering others, it shouldn't be allowed. Not as black and white as one would think.

It is a complicated issue, and the same argument can be made about alcohol. People die from drunk drivers every day. Does that mean it should be abolished? Is it any less addictive than tobacco? All these substances are a drug in the wrong hands. I do prefer smoke to be out of public places. That being said,
I'll take a good cigar or pipe being blown at me over the exhaust from a city bus any day. Are we derailed enough on this thread? How about those posters???!!!!

I think they've been intelligent and witty. They seem to have educated opinions and that's terrific. I'm happy to be around such folks. *smile*






I couldn't resist.

Nice choice for post #7000!

Shoot, I hadn't noticed. Thanks. <curtsies>

Yup, you're certainly a chatty sort, Bill, but we really like you anyway.

</rant>

We now return you to your thread, already in progress.

The big danger of smoke is not lung cancer -- it is heart disease. The incidence of smoking related heart disease dwarfs that of lung cancer. It's just that lung cancer gets trotted around as some sort of hyper-frightening bogeyman.

The link between smoking and heart disease is very real.

Additionally, despite the fact that BigTobacco™ does add chemicals to cigarettes that both increase the addiction and cause them to burn at an artificially increased rate, the nicotine in tobacco (on its own) is not only chemically addictive, but is the also main cause of the above mentioned heart disease.

Edit: at the risk of getting some detail wrong, due to what health science education I have now being about 5 years past...and also risking boring folks...the basics of how this works is thus:

Nicotine in the bloodstream mimics a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine. You actually have receptors in your circulatory system called nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. When these get triggered, it causes vasoconstriction. When your arteries constrict, your heart has to pump against a smaller conduit...in other words, you get high blood pressure.

A lifetime of smoking and, by extension, getting nicotine-induced high blood pressure fatigues the heart, causing to to wear out faster, exacerbating any existing congenital defects such as murmers, etc. Eventually, your ticker just plain gives out.


But yes. Lung cancer, while a danger among long-term smokers predisposed to cancer, only has a tenuous connection at best with second-hand smoke from what I recall.

The chemicals in commercial cigarettes also have a very real connection to pancreatic cancer, which my father-in-law died of in December. He was a heavy smoker for many years. Didn't even stop during chemo.



That won't stop me from having a nice hookah or cigar once in a blue moon, but I'll never touch a commercial cigarette. Nasty little buggers.

I'm still trying to get a good connection for some top-quality, all-natural tobacco from Greece or Turkey. You'll be amazed. They don't export the good stuff, and the few brands that use it muck it up with American weeds.

Modern American cigarettes are disgusting little tubes of crap. The cigarettes I remember from my youth were as fragrant and flavorful as a good cigar, and for the same reasons. Think about that: why should cigars taste and smell great, while cigarettes are horrible? Modern process and additives.

All of this still just points at the obvious: common sense and moderation. We have hundreds of years of solid evidence that moderate tobacco use is not injurious to an otherwise healthy person.

Moderation in all things is good and, like Brian, I too enjoy a good cigar or hookah on rare occasions.

Also like Brian, I would never touch a commercial cigarette. Beyond the nasty taste, some additive in there really doesn't agree with me. A lifelong asthmatic, I'm actually generally okay around moderate amounts of pipe and cigar smoke. Get me downwind of even a single cigarette, however, and my airways clamp up like crazy.


Even moderation in moderation is good, from time to time!

I've been thinking a lot about quitting smoking lately. This thread has made me think about it even more. Thanks guys! Well.. this thread and the Bodies exhibit Iwent to a couple weeks ago where they had lungs from a heavy smoker on display.. yuck! The had a bin for people to dispose of their smoke packs beside it. Fortunately my smokes were in my jacket in coatcheck

I'm going to have all three of these prohibition posters framed when I build my bar.

Interesting points about modern American cigarettes...I agree, they are awful, whereas cigars and pipe tobacco both smell wonderful.

For my part, although I have never smoked anything ever, I do believe people do have the right to their personal "vices," whether they be cigars or absinthe. I enjoy going into smoke-free establishments, and I'll admit to a selfish approval of laws that have created them, but as a matter of principle, I think the market should be able to support places where smokers can congregate as well.

If I ever get old enough for it not to matter, I fully intend to take up smoking...maybe when I'm 90.

Btw, thanks for all the comments about the posters (even OMG Bill's, haha)...my friend was most impressed when I gave him a synopsis of all your information.

As for tobacco, I don't smoke it and never have except for second hand. (it's cheaper that way)

I get my tobacco from Perique. Cheers!

Guguss was a weekly publication that sometimes devoted entire issues to attacking Prohibition. See http://www.oxygenee.com/absinthe/journals6.html.

The clock is striking the final hour of legal absinthe - it became illegal in Switzerland by statute on October 7th, 1910. The gloating prohibitionist is saying "the time is here".

The prohibitionist has a pointy head because he's, well, a pinhead. Does the text on the book say "Holy Bible" - I guess so. It seems to be implied that the pinhead is a hypocrite.

The Blue Cross was a prohibitionist organization started in France in the 1800s, thus the blue cross on the chest of the pinhead and in the handle of the dagger.

The Swiss Confederacy was founded in 1291. It died (not really, but you get the picture) in 1910. The three men are swearing an oath to the confederacy as explained by the link Gwydion posted. The woman represents a distressed confederacy, worn out by the attacks of the prohibitionists.

The black eagle comes from a flag of the Holy Roman Empire - the eagle here implies continuity with Rome. I don't think he's carrying anything - it looks to me likes he's flying from left to right - tail to the left, open beak to the right.

The owl may be intended to contrast with the eagle - a glorious beginning versus an ignominious end in the dark of night.

The temperance man has his hobnail boot on the corpse of the green fairy, murdered by the Blue Cross.

Funeral wreaths have been offered by the Cantons of Neuchatel and Geneva, and in the name of individual liberty.

That was quite thorough and informative - thanks!

Interestingly, there used to be an old superstition about having the hobnails in your boots formed into the shape of a cross to keep the devil away. Clearly the prohibitionist was in cahoots with Old Scratch!

Yes, in either Tom Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn, Huck Finn can tell his evil dad has been around by his boot print that shows the crossed nails.