This is the announcement I published this morning:


"Around this time, I had intended to post a follow-up report to the 2009 absinthe survey detailing changes that various absinthe vendors have since made to improve their selection. With the exception of Bevmo, I heard back personally from every source I had sent it to, assured with lavish promises of reform. I’m sad to report that despite the survey being widely cited, the response from actual vendors has been minimal.

But there is one absinthe vendor that has really stepped up to the plate the past few weeks and taken a genuine pledge to improve. But this is more than just an empty pledge, serious action has already been taken. Mike Schallehn, owner of the well-known absinthe vendor Alandia, has completely overhauled its US-focused sister site Absinthe.fm. Last month, I contacted Mike and we had several conversations regarding the future of absinthe, thujone, and what brands are currently available to his customers. After much planning, you can see that working hand-in-hand, the Absinthe.fm absinthe selection has been improved by over 50%. In addition to overhauling the absinthe selection, "do-it-yourself" items like absinthe essences, and all instances of the word "thujone" have been completely removed. Furthermore, I am thrilled to announce that later this year, work will also begin on Alandia. We need to understand, of course, that Alandia is a massively larger absinthe source, and therefore it is not practical to expect a similar undertaking, but a more gradual, carefully planned execution.

For those that are unfamiliar with the Alandia brand, it is one of the top absinthe vendors in the world, providing service to thousands of absinthe enthusiasts in every global absinthe market. I cannot stress enough how significant this change will be to the absinthe market over time.

It can be said with confidence that Alandia is a vendor that we will be able to support wholeheartedly. Many factors will dictate the pace at which this rebirth will develop, including sales figures, the absinthe market in its entirety, and the current state of the global economy. Please keep these factors in mind, and realize that this is not a transformation that can be completed overnight. TARN will continue to work with Mr. Schallehn into 2010.



We ask that you, the absinthe community, would support this decision with both encouragement and feedback as we continue to push forward."







I'll probably be gone by the time people start seeing this announcement, but I should have a chance to check in later this evening and address any comments or questions, as I'm sure there are some things WS will want clarified!

Although thujone has been remove it seems to be replaced with "high amount of wormwood" & "powerful wormwood effect" and other variations.

This is exciting news, Ben. I'll try to keep an eye on both sites to see how they progress, and thanks very much for your efforts on this front!

Derrick is correct that that terminology such as "high amount of wormwood" may have replaced "thujone", but if said absinthe does in fact have a high amount of wormwood, then I don't see a problem in stating as much.

I'm also glad to see statements from them such as, "We all know, Absinthe won´t make you freak out and you won´t see pink elephants on the wall. But drinking Absinthe is different to drinking normal alcohol." Again, I see nothing wrong with extolling the virtues of the drink in a responsible, honest way, and engaging in a little hyperbole and metaphor is accepted practice while selling any product.

I think I've always been the biggest supporter of Alandia on the English-speaking absinthe forums. I feel that, after LdF, Oxy's enterprise, and Luc's Verte d'Absinthe, Alandia has done more to enrich the absinthe world than any other vendor. (unless you consider Hiram a vendor, in which case Alandia takes 5th place)

They have produced a wide range of terrific glassware, spoons/grilles, fountains and other accoutrement, as well as 2 or 3 perfectly respectable absinthes. Having met Mike at the festivals, I found him to be a really nice guy, too. I've always felt it was unfortunate that the hype for thujone made his site such a pariah here and on other community forums.

I've got no doubt that the elimination of thujone advertising will cost him some money, and with the state of the world economy, such a sacrifice is admirable. Perhaps it will earn him a second chance with the online community, which could lead to him making up some of the lost income. That would be a very just outcome.

I'd love to see Alandia welcomed by the online community. I think he's done a lot to earn respect, and I hope that if he does make the effort to eliminate the kind of advertising language that we find offensive, people will give him credit for doing so.

Huh. I've intentionally avoided Alandia like those mentioned in your (WBT's) post, but I easily forget the things you mentioned that would make me reconsider. Ben's update also makes me much more likely to buy there.

The only flaw I see now is that it's still freakin' expensive, and their shipping seems strangely high. Maybe this view is because I haven't ordered from LdF in such a long time, who knows. DUNY and the free shipping over 100 bucks is addictive, I know that.

You read my mind again, speeds, although it may not be the only flaw. As this segment grows, it's going to become more and more competitive. I think some of the early going vendors are going to have to wake up and smell the anethole. As choices broaden, consumers are much less likely to consent to be gouged and, perhaps even, resent those who attempt it.

So let's see if you get people giving you shit for being 'too gentle and rah rah' with them now.

I'm only responding to speedle's comment, which is the only observation I made in my two minute visit to this site. There may be a host of other problems (I don't know), but as a consumer, pricing seems out of line, and would eliminate them as a potential vendor for me. No "rah rah" intended.

A couple other things to note:

-Mata Hari will also be removed at both Absinthe.fm and Alandia once the remaining stock is gone.
-Alandia has actually already made a few changes like dropping Tabu Strong and Staro Red.
-Just added as Absinthe of the Month at Alandia: Eichelberger Brut 83.2 Festival Edition (2007), which is exclusive.




It's a start! Though it should be noted that some references have been removed altogether. Let's keep in mind that we can't make decisions that will allow half his customer base to fall off a cliff. With the way business was conducted in the past, there is probably a considerable number of his customers that consider thujone a factor. We will be watching and analyzing the sales trends very carefully before toning it down further, but it will come eventually. Mike DOES want thujone references to be gone ENTIRELY, but cannot afford to do so at the moment.




Yes, precisely Bill. When I was pleading my case with him right from the beginning I tried to stress the point that the support of the community will make up for any lost business from his thujone-crazed customers. DUNY's success regarding absinthe from word of mouth comes to mind.

Also, like you said, part of his motivation to keep improving is going to come from the community giving him a pat on the back and encouraging him to keep going.






Yes, the prices are a bit higher to make up for the free shipping offer, admittedly. But assuming you order enough to qualify it's really not bad at all.

Let's compare ordering Eich 68 from LDF vs. Eich 70 from a.fm:

a.fm:

Eich 70: $65
Shipping: $0
TOTAL PRICE: $65

LdF:

Eich 68: $52
Shipping: (for one bottle, assuming 3 are ordered, flat rate price): Approx $17
TOTAL COST: $69

Doesn't seem so outrageous anymore, eh?

Also, ordering in multipacks saves you $15 at .fm, so assuming you decided to go that route, that same example would be about $10 cheaper per bottle at Absinthe.fm. When comparing to DUNY, I'm not saying this vendor should be a replacement, but at the very least another consideration; With a per bottle rate of $50-$100, it is about the same price range, and there are plenty not available stateside.

Then that's not free shipping, now is it? Unlike DUNY which offers true free shipping.

How do you get the free shipping on the Ike, without having to spend 200 bucks? I must be missing something...

"high amount of wormwood" is a pretty obvious reference, don't you think? Otherwise, they might have gone with a more descriptive, "a more flavorful wormwood" or "increased wormwood flavor" but it's not the flavor they're selling, is it?

I appreciate the attempt to improve but slicing and dicing a few words is still plain ol' semantics:




Just because they left out the word thujone, I don't think they deserve too much backslapping. They're still touting the drug effect. Meh.

yeah, what Speedle said.

Yup. I hope improvements continue to be made.

I see your point, but in fairness, it's not the flavor that people are exclusively buying -- not even the WS members. If absinthe tasted exactly the same but had zero alcohol content (and all the accompanying effects that come with consuming alcohol), how many of us would still be as excited about it and be willing to pay $60 or $80 a bottle for it?



True; and given how dangerous that could be to the future of absinthe as an industry (at least here in the U.S.), I believe marketing absinthe based on thujone content should be discontinued by all vendors.

However, I don't agree that vendors shouldn't have the right to market the product creatively and to appeal to those who seek something different and yes, even legendary. After all, we play our own game with semantics when we talk about how absinthe gives you "a different kind of buzz" than other alcohols, and makes us feel tipsy "but alert". Those are effects, too, and we don't arch an eyebrow at those. More to the point -- they are effects that most people here would agree actually exist. As long as the "T-word" is dropped and there's no obvious reference to a "drug-like" effect, then I don't see a problem with talking up that actual effect.

At least, I don't see any more of a problem than any other product that's being marketed -- meaning that I'm not a fan of "marketing' in general, as most ads are obnoxious to me on some level or other, but that's a discussion for another thread and/or forum

Talking about the effect of anethole (yes, anethole, NOT thujone) is different than implying some form of recreational drug potential from absinthe. It isn't thujone to begin with, so preying on the uneducated by talking about 'high amounts of wormwood' is just propugating the myths that unscrupulous producers in the 1990's began.

Remember, the effects that were spoken about prior to the bans were not the same thing that we've seen since the 1990's. Magnan's claims were of epileptic fits and siezures as well as uncontrollable bowels. Sound recreational to you?

Do you see other anethole heavy or herbal spirits (and yes, they do provide similar effects) implying these types of things? No. Only absinthe does, and that's all about marketing to the people who think it's some kind of drug.

Actually, you're wrong. At least in my case. I drink absinthe because I like the flavor and the ritual. I don't drink it to get drunk. I don't drink it for any effects, since I rarely feel any anyways.

Magnan wanted to join "absinthisme" with "anisinisme"; thanks God he failed in doing so. Yet his plan to ban pastis and anisette was valid and almost in the making back in day. There were rumours that anethole from star anise would contain methanol from wood and that anethole itself served like epilepsy-forming drug. Some associations with coriander and fennel have been drawn as well.

Given the high alcohol content of most absinthes, I'm surprised that you rarely feel any effects while drinking it. I feel a fair amount after just one glass! Perhaps I am wrong, but I suspect that you are in the minority with respect to that issue.

To address your other comments -- it wasn't my purpose to argue that "high wormwood content" was a worthy marketing statement, or even correct (although unless distillers released proprietary info, comparing the levels of content would be speculative at best). Perhaps "high ABV" would be more appropriate.

It may be true that simply removing the word "thujone" is a word game meant to attract those who believe that absinthe holds some sort of hallucinogenic properties, but I think that we're viewing this from two different ends of the spectrum. I'm looking at it from the point of view that someone who is new to absinthe might wind up starting at that site, and they're very likely to read "high wormwood content" without making the leap to "drug-like effects".

It seems that you may be looking at it from the other end, thinking that anyone who knows all the old myths and has been scouring sites advertising "high thujone content" will now read "high wormwood content" with a wink and a nudge, and buy it thinking they're going to experience hallucinations.

Your notion may very well be correct, but I believe those are the kind of people who will refuse to accept that absinthe is a drug even after they've drank some and/or read evidence to the contrary. Dispelling those myths and providing an educational resource for them seems to be the WS mission, which I think is a noble and worthy cause -- I just don't think that people selling absinthe should be held accountable for doing it.

That said, it seems we're all agreed that the statements on the Alandia site could use more in the way of clarity and corrections. Hopefully they will address that in the very near future.

well i would say alandia has done some good for the community, but their website is just one lie after another

Jay, my friend:

1) there is no high alcohol of most of the absinthes, once louched they possess like 12.5-16%, so they fit the boisson hygienique (read wine) notion.

2) maximum wormwood content, or whatever it is to be called, doesn't refer to thujone. Take thujone-free wormwood and you can use like 250 g/l (historical amount for that matter).

I have met Mike in Boveresse; he is our man, does not it suffice? I give him all my credit.

Really? I'm damn sure that is exactly what I am exclusively buying and motivates what I want to make.

What are you doing, drinking it straight???

What Boggy said.



Holy crap, did I just say that?

Brian, thank you for acknowledging the improvements. As someone also engaged a business career, I'm sure you're well aware that these are tweaks that will completely turn the website on its noggin'. We are setting up a rough timeline of where we want to be and how quickly things can progress without causing a plummet in sales.

Joe, if you are worried about the thujone issue, just let me reiterate that eventually Mike DOES want it gone COMPLETELY. But even assuming, say, 20% of his customers are buying based on thujone (and I think we both know it's likely more than that), going cold turkey could have too drastic an effect on business in short order. Even just removing the word thujone is a large first step for someone that has been promoting it for several years. Right now we are looking at ways to give Czechsinth drinkers some sort of incentive to come to the side of genuine absinthe. We are pondering the idea of, for instance, a Duplais mini with any order over $75. That would give Czechsinth drinkers a chance to discover genuine absinthe that they probably never would have bothered with otherwise. Do you have any other ideas we could implement, Joe? Any feedback would be helpful, my friend.

Also, you'll be happy to note that I received an e-mail this morning letting me know that he will start going over and revising product descriptions at Alandia before long to tone down thujone mentions. But for the most part, let's try to keep the focus on Absinthe.FM, as its progress over the months will dictate how quickly we can move on to other things like Alandia.



The point is, the per bottle rate can be cheaper in some instances, more expensive in others. It could be said that LDF's $52 shipping rate for one bottle is excessive because of the flat rate, but that would be equally unfair. Because of that flat rate, it's not worth a purchase unless you purchase 3 bottles. At .fm most purchases are not going to be worthwhile unless 4 bottles are purchased. So overall, LdF may be a better value in some cases, but like I illustrated, in others .fm can also be the better value.

But let's not make this a scenario of picking sides. LdF and DUNY are great sources for authentic absinthe, I don't think anyone is questioning that. Absinthe.fm is getting there, but again, this will take time, and we need to understand that the changes already made are considered massive. To put this into perspective: when I was e-mailing the various US vendors whose absinthe makes up less than 1% of their selection, most of them wouldn't budge on even a single brand. Some I spent a week talking to with zero results. Compare that to changing half of your stock, knowing full well that business will take some sort of hit due to your actions, and that should be deserving of some sort of commendation, don't you think?

Yes, you have

Not disagreeing with you bud, just clarifying my confusion. It's a good thing, it's a good step in the right direction, and it sounds like your work with Absinthe.fm has produced ten times the results we've gotten from Absintheology, for instance, although I'm not saying Brian hasn't had greater success elsewhere.

I'm not in it to one-up anyone. I'm glad there's more than just a few people out there working their butts off to make things right in the absinthe world.

I'm really excited for the podcasts though.

For those of you who don't know, I'm working on setting up phone-based interviews with many of the big-wigs in the absinthe community as well as some producers. I think they should be great information as well as fairly entertaining. At least I hope so. I'm working on scheduling them now, so I'm hoping to get one or two up in the next 10 days or so.

Any spoilers on who some of your early interviews are with?

This is great. I ordered from Alandia once, and it went fine. They had a huge selection but always seemed a bit "Czechsinthy" to me. I'm going to check the new site out as soon as I post this!

If it had zero alcohol content, it would not be Absinthe. Kind of a pointless argument. Right?



You may be surprised to find that there are folks who do not see it that way.
IMHO, the so called "effects" of Absinthe are highly overrated.
Like someone said a long time ago. At first you check it out for the buzz but end up sticking around for the flavor.

Meh it's not all bad, I would consider purchasing the TARN Triple pack with a bottle of Clandestine thrown on top to qualify for the free shipping. Kudos to Mike for wanting to change for the better.

I have to disagree on this one point. It isn't like there was no implication before the bans that absinthe had special effects, or that this reputation was an invention of modern marketing. Oscar Wilde, at the very least, was responsible for at least two famous quotes that made outright claims of enhanced perception and even mild hallucinations.

Also, the fact that absinthe was so strongly embraced by many famous artists who extolled its virtues to the exclusion of other liquors created a general perception that the drink enhanced creativity in some special way.

Poor old Phil Baker's much-hated book did a good job of addressing at least this idea. He describes the gulf between the genuine artistic geniuses who would have created great works no matter what they drank, but who happened to love absinthe, and the generation of mediocre poets and painters who then desperately guzzled absinthe by the liter in the hopes of a visionary breakthrough. The latter group tended to write and paint works about absinthe, passing along the notion that it was in some way tied to inspiration and artistic vision.

From this group come, for example, the paintings well known to this group but which I find quite mediocre, of the tortured artists with ghostly green fairies sitting at their table or literally pushing inspiration into their heads.

I disagree with your disagreement for several reasons:

1) Most any alcohol created by man has been written about in the same manner by poets, philosophers, etc for millenia. Yet it seems like only those who drink absinthe take it seriously. Just a few examples:


2) RE: Oscar Wilde, if you're talking about the now famous 'tulips' passage, he never actually wrote that. It was written decades later, by a different author who assigned that quote to him, which I'm sure you know about.

There have been many liquid muses throughout history. The Belle Epoque was absinthe's turn. There's obviously something hypnotic about the louching process, which might have made it more exaggerated than some others, but it's still the same premise that authors have fallen back on in every culture at some point in time.

If absinthe magically didn't cause me any alcoholic effect I'd be just as enthusiastic about it as I am now. If you can get sufficiently drunk off a $6 bottle of vodka, then a $60 bottle of absinthe is worth $54 more just for the flavour. Even if getting a buzz is part of your love of absinthe it's got to be a tremendously minor concern to spend that much money on it.

Unless you're expecting something beyond that.

You're right, in the case of the Eich. When I first looked at this, I looked at the E. Pernot products, which still look high to me. Also, in your example, you're comparing pomegranates to persimmons. The way to fairly compare these two transactions is to compare a same value purchase from LdF to Alandia.FM. In that example, LdF is much closer to AFM in terms of delivered price per bottle (for the Eichs). The bottom line is that they (AFM) might be an economically viable source... just do your homework.




There is no "true free shipping". If you have to buy something, the shipping is included in the price. If you don't believe me, call DUNY and ask them to ship you an empty three bottle box!

I can't believe you just said that!

All this "we" has had me wondering from early in this conversation... Ben, do you have some kind of fiduciary relationship to any of the Alandia sites? I think it's a fair question.



This, also, heightened my curiosity.

Apparently not, since that's the one sentence out of my various comments that has generated the most discussion (and disagreement).





First of all, I feel the need to point out that I said it's not the flavor exclusively that people are buying -- I never said that flavor wasn't a primary factor. Secondly, you yourself turned around and said that people initially check it out "for the buzz", which is essentially helping to prove the very point I was making.

As to thujone vs. wormwood, Boggy, I think you may have misunderstood me. My argument mirrors exactly what you just said -- they are in no way the same thing. Therefore, Alandia's choice to market certain absinthes as having a "high wormwood content" should not be generating the same kind of hostility that their previous marketing of "high thujone content" did.

Also, absinthe may not have a much higher ABV after loucheing than the average glass of wine, but the strength of the drink is truly in the hands of the person adding water. (And Brian, to answer your question, I tend to add about 4 parts water to 1 part absinthe, on average). In addition, the effect of the alcohol in absinthe (especially in how it differs from the effects of other alcohols) is substantial enough to refer to it as an "effect", but I realize that other people may have different experiences with that. In my case, it doesn't make me drunk quickly, but I do feel it take hold faster than an equivalent ABV glass of wine or whiskey does for me, and it doesn't make me sleepy like most other alcohols do.

Lastly, I'm very surprised how many of you are claiming that you'd be just as enamored of absinthe if it were non-alcoholic. Given that, at least outside of this forum, the sales of non-alcoholic beverages is a tiny fraction of what the alcoholic originals are (in spite of some having a very good taste), that makes me wonder how a $60 or $80 bottle of non-alcholic absinthe with great flavor would actually sell amongst the members here -- perhaps better than I think.

But I digress. I'll end by saying that if I can bring Boggy and Brian into agreement on anything, I feel that my work is done here

I have to say I'm saddened that my integrity would be questioned so easily...

I am neither employed nor have any sort of affiliation with Alandia. If I did, I wouldn't have put all that work into the survey (will be taken annually), which was passed to ALL vendors to help them improve. I also keep in contact with Kamal on a regular basis to give feedback, discuss upcoming absinthe, etc for DUNY. What else would I say other than "we" when Mike and I are collaborating on improvements? I suppose I could say "Mike and I", but that would be a little tedious...

Mike asked if I wanted to create a custom pack that included some of my top choices from their selection, so I took him up on it, yes. I think it should help some new customers looking for an introduction to absinthe.

What do you mean, exactly? Like non-alcoholic beer and wine? Near-beer is fermented like any other beer and then has the alcohol mostly, but not entirely removed. The result is generally horrid and doesn't taste like beer. But the fact that it's even possible is because it's a fermented beverage. Same is true for near-wine. Absinthe is a distilled beverage, and thus a completely different beast.

Let's get something perfectly straight. Absinthe cannot be made without alcohol. It's not just something that's there to give you a buzz. You literally could not make something that tastes the same without the alcohol because that is what locks in that intense flavour. I've had absinthe that was not properly sealed and thus had much of the alcohol evaporate out of it, and it was disgusting (specifically it was the dregs of a sample of preban Pernod Fils). I've also had whiskey that suffered the same fate, and gin. It's always terrible.


Don't be saddened. It was a perfectly fair and reasonable question. There isn't a member of WS who wouldn't be asked about it if it seemed at all like they might be shilling for Alandia.

Diplomats quite often face this issue. Look at this positively: you are in line for this year's Ban Ki-moon award for absinthe diplomacy (and I don't believe that Brian is eligible to win it two years' running ...)

My musing about "non-alcoholic absinthe" was just a hypothetical to express my amazement that so many people here all but completely dismiss the alcohol content of absinthe as a reason for drinking it, but yes, you're correct in that I should have phrased it as a "non-alcoholic absinthe substitute" since it technically couldn't be absinthe. Such a thing sounds nasty (and probably would be), but in a decade or ten, with enough testing and trial and error, it might be possible that a convincing non-alcoholic liquid could be concocted that tasted like absinthe.

In fact, you probably wouldn't be able to light it on fire, so who knows -- maybe it will end up being WS' secret weapon against Czechsinthe in the 22nd century. Of course, by then their sugar & burn might actually be a bona fide alternate tradition after 100 years of practice, and there'd be little left to fight over on that particular front.

Damn. Mutually Assured Destruction would has us at a stalemate.

Exactly. Most of your quotes about alcohol as a liquid muse are in reference to alcohol in general. Absinthe, on the other hand, has been singled out, not just by those who drink it, but through rumor by society at large, as having more effect on one's "vision" in the sense of perception, than other drinks. And people have taken this idea seriously, where as when similar things have been written about other drinks, it is understood to be hyperbole or metaphor.

Besides, my point, which you say you disagree with, is not that absinthe has been perceived as being special or infamous, (which seems self evident to me) but that absinthe had its reputation for having a unique effect on one's perception during the Belle Époque, and that this was not an invention of marketing in the 1990s.

The modern marketing guys were capitalizing on an existing belief that began back in the day, as evidenced in the aforementioned paintings by the absinthe-inspiration believers, of magical green fairies putting visions in men's heads. Or by Oscar Wilde's quote: "After the first glass, you see things as you wish they were. After the second, you see things as they are not. Finally, you see things as they really are, and that is the most horrible thing in the world."

This idea can also be found in the many works of lesser writers of the period, scribbling in bistros about the special vision they expected from the green fairy. Even if you truly see no difference between this belief and the way people think about tequila or wine, my point stands that they took this idea seriously about absinthe during its heyday, and it is not an idea created out of whole cloth by advertisers in the modern era.

Exactly.

After seeing all the shit I got on your forum, are you REALLY that suprised?

Seeing Strong 68 as #1 bestseller is scary enough. Of all the absinthe I've tasted, well, anyone want a bottle? Because I'll never touch it again. Hmm, think it might work as weed killer?

And I'm glad that's the answer. Like I said when I asked the question, I think it was a fair one. Believe me, Ben, I originally typed it with the trepidation that it could be taken that way. I thought about it hard, and concluded that it was a fact that needed to be transparent in this conversation. All the "we" statements just kept impressing me as awfully possessive. It's understandable, since you obviously have a great deal of personal investment in this, and have reason to be proud of the outcome.

So actually Mike is "watching and analyzing", "setting up a rough timeline", "pondering the idea", etc.. You are the lobbyist.

Ben, sorry if this caused you any personal discomfort. I think you know I like and admire you and the work you do. Frankly, I think your position in this conversation is actually enhanced by this issue being perfectly clear.

Wow. I wish I would have gotten the same resounding support when I declared my allegiances!

Seriously though, Ben, I'm really glad you've spent this time with Alandia. I think it will do nothing but help improve absinthe education throughout the US. I look forward to seeing all of the other improvements that come down the pipe.